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General Finishes

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Laurent Brondel

Post subject: General Finishes

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:39 am

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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:30 am
Posts: 1792
Location: United States

Anybody tried General Finishes on steel strings? Either the Enduro-Var, Pre-cat urethane and Clear poly? And what were your results?
http://www.generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

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Link Van Cleave

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:16 pm

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:49 am
Posts: 897
Location: Northen Cal.

Sorry Laurent I have nothing to offer but thought I would give this a bump.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

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Ken C

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:47 pm

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:44 am
Posts: 1005
Location: SE Michigan
First name: Kenneth
Last Name: Casper
City: Northville
State: MI
Country: U.S.A
Focus: Build

I have used their wipe on finishes for years, but never on a guitar.

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

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Brook Moore

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 am

Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:16 am
Posts: 140
Location: United States

As it happens, I just received a quart of Enduro-Var in the mail yesterday. I hope to spray a test panel in the next couple of weeks. Here is some info that I received from General Finishes to my questions about Enduro Var and the Pre Cat Urethane.

Quote:

Brook use the Enduro Var. It is more like an oil urethane and can be recoated in 2 hours. This product will give you excellent depth and is extremely durable. Water base products do not have burn in like the lac but they attach on. So you are better letting it dry out for a good two hours between coats. We recommend letting it dry dry good for 2 weeks

I also have a couple guys that do this for a living and here is a suggested system they used for a project they did with our Enduro Var...

yep, he did the back to back thing, to create a uniform 1 coat for the final rub

Subject: FW: Schedule for EV

Try this schedule. It takes 3 coats 1 day and 3 coats the next day.

________________________________________
From: Jeff Jewitt [mailto:jbjewitt@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:47 PM
To: 'Tom Monahan'
Subject: Schedule for EV

1. Prep wood to 220
2. Spray full wet coat of EV gloss - wait 2 hours
3. Level sand 320 - spray 2 nd full wet coat wait 2 hours - light sand 320
4. Full wet coat --- wait over night

5. Level sand with 320 - wipe with water and 5% DNA
6. Wet coat 2-3 mils dry 1 hr and repeat twice for a total of 3 coats only 1 hr in -between

Let dry 1 week

Level sand dry with P800 Mirka.
Sand dry with P1200 Mirka
Sand with 2000 grit Abralon dry

(Note - do NOT use lubricants of any type to level sand)

Then - 3M Finesse-it Finishing Material on foam buffing pad to gloss.

Have a great day!

Sheryl Monahan

General Finishes
1-800-783-6050
2462 Corporate Circle
East Troy, WI. 53120
http://www.generalfinishes.com

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Laurent Brondel

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:40 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:30 am
Posts: 1792
Location: United States

Brook, keep us updated on your progress. What are you going to use for a test panel?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

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Jim_H

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:43 pm

Koa

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:41 pm
Posts: 708
Location: Bothell, WA USA
First name: Jim
Last Name: Hansen
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

Excellent info! Thanks...

Also you might want to remove the email address from the post before the bots find it.

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Jim Hansen

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Ken Mitchell

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:57 pm

Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:58 pm
Posts: 316

Laurent,

I just sprayed three steel string guitars with their Clear Gloss Poly (water based) a couple of months ago. These were student guitars, and I was looking for something that was easy, relatively glossy, and durable.

For a quick finish on a student guitar, it worked well. The guitars came out of the spray process with a semi-gloss, egg-shell finish. We pretty much just used a fine grit swirl remover, then polished them, and that gave a level of shine that was sufficient for our needs.

I did level and buff out around joined areas (neck, bridge), so that if the students wanted to level and actually buff out the whole guitar later, they could. They haven't really pursued that idea, so I'm assuming that they're pleased with them the way they are.

Overall, the finish was very easy to level and work with, but the gloss is not as good as a lacquer finish.

Hope this helps...

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

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Laurent Brondel

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:49 am

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:30 am
Posts: 1792
Location: United States

What General Finishes poly did you use Ken? The PolyAcrylic, High Performance, or the Enduro?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

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alan stassforth

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:36 am

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 10:32 am
Posts: 2616
First name: alan
Last Name: stassforth
City: Santa Rosa
State: ca
Zip/Postal Code: 95404
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

I've only used their wipe on poly on a slab git, and I like it.
I think you won't be happy with water based "blueness".
Looks okay to me on light woods,
but not dark.
I would do a comparison on scrap wood.
You are a varnish guy,
and nothing in my opinion beats varnish.
I would love to find a good water based finish though.

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Steve_E

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:13 am

Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 215
First name: Steve
Last Name: Ellis
City: Manteca
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95337
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

I sprayed my last with the pre-cat sanding sealer and the pre-cat urethane (gloss). After sufficient dry time, I power leveled with micro-mesh for ROS and got very good results. Hard, flat and glossy. I'm planning on using it until I find something easier.

I love the fact that it is water-based for the cleanup and chemicals. I still wear a spray mask, but I'm not anal about it.
Steve

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AlBDarned

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:32 am

Cocobolo

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 2:19 pm
Posts: 262
First name: Al
Last Name: Darned
City: Toronto
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

Just noticed in the last Lee Valley catalogue that they're carrying this stuff now, fyi.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63849&cat=1,190,42942

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Laurent Brondel

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:00 am

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:30 am
Posts: 1792
Location: United States

Steve_E wrote:

I sprayed my last with the pre-cat sanding sealer and the pre-cat urethane (gloss). After sufficient dry time, I power leveled with micro-mesh for ROS and got very good results. Hard, flat and glossy. I'm planning on using it until I find something easier. I love the fact that it is water-based for the cleanup and chemicals. I still wear a spray mask, but I'm not anal about it.
Steve

Steve, do you want to detail your process a bit more? How many coats, and did you measure the final film thickness? How long did you let it cure? Did you machine buff it and how's the gloss? Are you happy with the way the finish looks and feels? BTW, just because it's waterbase and much lower in VOC does not mean there are no nasty chemicals in it. I wouldn't be too cavalier with protection.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

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Ken C

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:55 pm

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:44 am
Posts: 1005
Location: SE Michigan
First name: Kenneth
Last Name: Casper
City: Northville
State: MI
Country: U.S.A
Focus: Build

Laurent Brondel wrote:

What General Finishes poly did you use Ken? The PolyAcrylic, High Performance, or the Enduro?

Laurent, I used their Arm R Seal wipe on varnish for years with other wood projects. Prior to getting into water based lacquer about 4 years ago, Arm R Seal was my finish of choice. I used it on breakfast tables, chests, mantle clocks, and all sorts of other furniture. I used to rub it out with rubbing oil, pumice, and rottenstone. I didn't get the high gloss I get with EM6000, but I got a great finish with minimal effort. I don't know anything about GF's other finishes, but commented only to point that I was familiar with the company and had used one of their finishes.

Ken

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Mike OMelia

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:16 am

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6994
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro

Let's talk repairability and melt in. Anything that crosslinks means to me, low melt in, witness lines, and forget repairs. Am I wrong?

Mike

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Ken Mitchell

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:27 pm

Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:58 pm
Posts: 316

Laurent,

The poly that I used was the High Performance water based topcoat, in gloss finish.

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

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Ken Mitchell

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:27 pm

Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:58 pm
Posts: 316

Laurent,

The poly that I used was the High Performance water based topcoat, in gloss finish.

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

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Laurent Brondel

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:46 am

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:30 am
Posts: 1792
Location: United States

Thank you Ken & Ken, I am only interested in the Enduro line of products. Mike, all the issues you point to are also valid to a great extent for oil varnish. It never bothered me.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

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Mike OMelia

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:17 am

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6994
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro

Laurent Brondel wrote:

Thank you Ken & Ken, I am only interested in the Enduro line of products. Mike, all the issues you point to are also valid to a great extent for oil varnish. It never bothered me.

I thought that was the case. I was not challenging the finish on those merits, I was just wondering.

Mike

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Colin North

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:44 am

Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5583
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro

I'm bumping this as I have an interest in the Enduro water based finishes ( mainly Enduro-Var or clear gloss) and wondered if anyone had further observations/feedback?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

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Alex Kleon

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:13 am

Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:32 pm
Posts: 3470
First name: Alex
Last Name: Kleon
City: Whitby
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: L1N8X2
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

Colin North wrote:

I'm bumping this as I have an interest in the Enduro water based finishes ( mainly Enduro-Var or clear gloss) and wondered if anyone had further observations/feedback?

I don't know if this will help, but I used the Enduro-Var for my kitchen cabinets about two weeks ago. As a comparison, I had used EM2000 on a couple of kitchens and cabinetry before, and found the Enduro to spray much better and dry harder.
The re-coat time was 5-6 hours for my conditions. I thinned about 10% with distilled water, and sprayed with a Wagner HVLP conversion gun set at 14psi at the gun. Maybe my technique is improving, but I found much less overspray compared to the EM2000. As far as cabinetry, this is going to be my finish of choice for now.

Alex

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meddlingfool

Post subject: Re: General Finishes

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:12 am

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 7539
First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional

Alan,
Try KTM-SV, a waterborne spar varnish. It's a urethane.

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