Official Luthiers Forum!

For a first time sprayer, what is the best water based lacquer to use?

EM6000
KTM-9 ( worried about long term)
ColorTone
OTHERS???

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

EM6000

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

I believe EM6000 and ColorTone are the same, or virtually so. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Colortone is made by Target Coatings, but it is not the same. Very similar, If I recall right, the colortone is more like the product that EM6000 replaced. As far as ease of spraying and being extremely forgiving, EM6000 is the best. Not to mention it is way harder and slicker than KTM-9 or anything else I have tried that is water based.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

Is shellac compatable with em6000? I've heard that some have had trouble with shellac and KTM-9 so I wasn't sure if that is true with all water based lacquers. What do you guys use for a sealer?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

I have used both the Target water based shellac and zinsers bullseye, only issue I ever noted was that it seems to take longer to fully chemically cured when used over shellac. By that I mean, you can always sand and polish after 2 weeks of drying, but never wet sand with water cause at 2 weeks the em6000 isn't quite completely water resistant. It takes a month or two for it to be full on water/chemically resistant even though it no longer shrinks, but over the shellac it seemed to take a little longer, not much though. I personally like it over shellac cause it adds depth.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

There have been enough issues with ktm-9 bubbling under hand sweat to justify a reommendation to avoid it. Em-6000 reputably has the slight bluish cast typical of acrylics. Try KTM-SV. But read the currently running SV thread on this forum for more educated thoughts than mine. But stay off KTM 9.

Another one for EM6000. I use it over shellac and I let it cure for a week then wet sand using mineral spirits.

I did a neck repair on one guitar and didn't use any shellac on the repaired area, just went straight to the EM6000. Don't know if it was the product or something I did but the adhesion wasn't the best in that spot.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Another vote for EM6000...!





Here are some things I do that may help:
~20 coats seems to be about equivalent to about .005" thick finish once buffed.
~I dry sand with 400 and then wet sand up to 2000 grit before buffing
~sealing with shellac helps pop the grain

Good luck

Trev

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

I am no expert in finishing. But hear is my experience.

I ordered a gallon of EM6000 in matt and a pint in gloss.
I wanted the bodies on a set of three guitars to be matt and just the headstocks to be gloss.

The gloss looks great I laid it on thick for the headstock, its clear and beautiful.

I tried to lay the matt down as thin as I could. It had a major blue haze to it. I tried laying it thinner, then thought after it cured it might clear up.
No dice, it looks terrible. I am sanding it off all three guitars, its a real pain.
Also it check really bad on my tops. I am going to redo them in the gloss.

I was thinking of switching to nitro or something oil based on my next?

So would any recommend

http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/prod ... 70-10.html

over

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=246 (wax free) ??

The target shellac is amber and I'm not sure if the Bulls Eye is or not. Does amber darken the top a lot?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

I haven't used EM6000 yet but I used the older USL over shellac with no problems (I have a can of EM6000 in my basement, it's just that my output is so low it takes quite a while for me to make it through a gallon of finish!).

I would not recommend using any pre-mixed shellac under any circumstances. Mixing your own shellac is so easy and cheaper to boot that it makes no sense to buy pre-mixed shellac, especially one that's been modded to somehow be water borne. I've also seen a thread, perhaps on this board where EM6000 over target WB Shellac didn't have the same water resistance once cured. The guy from Target responded and I believe even duplicated the failure but I can't remember what the solution was.

Buy a bag of super blond dewaxed from LMI or Stew Mac and a can of alcohol from your hardware store. Mix up a 1lb cut 8 oz at a time (1 oz flakes by weight in 8 oz of alcohol by volume) and I think you'll see you've got more than enough for a full guitar build.

Another advantage of using shellac in alcohol is that it won't raise the grain like a water born does - makes for a much easier sealing session.

Check out these threads:

http://www.targetcoatings.com/forum/vie ... php?t=1374

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22229&p=305993&hilit=EM6000+water+resistance#p305993

Target EM6000 - Good!

Premixed Shellac - BAD!*

*Even if it's o.k. most of the time, why take the risk?

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I ave never used the em6000 but I will give it a try in the future. I have used KTM and Colortone and I like the colortone a lot. I used to always sand through the KTM and I've never done that with the Colortone using the same method. I lay it on very thin and use lots and lots of coats before leveling and finishing with 2 or 3 top coats.

I have used EM6000 over traditional flake shellac and over the Target Waterborne shellac and have had no problems with either.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

based on the specs from this sprayer ( http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page ... ilter=hvlp ) do you think it will do the EM6000 ok?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

I have used two coats of 2lb flake shellac (from LMI) under the Stew-Mac waterbased finish system and had major crazing and adhesion problems.

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Formerly know as Mandodiddle.