Official Luthiers Forum!

I covered the ER for a large interventional cardiology group for many years and cannot say I ever remember anyone in trouble because of antihistamines. The older ones, like Benadryl, can have an anticholinergic effect which technically can increase one's heart rate if enough is taken, but we are talking about overdose situations. Decongestants, like Sudafed, are another story- they are related to adrenalin and can most certainly raise your BP and heart rate. ( not to mention what happens if you get caught turning it into meth )
Claritin ( not Claritin-D ) is remarkably safe- believe me if the FDA put it OTC, it has been scrutinized. If you have serious health issues, it goes without saying that you should not take any drug or supplement unless your doc approves it. ( Go ahead and use a neti pot though- if you ask you may be told that he or she dosen't believe in medical marijuana...)

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

I of course defer to the knowledge of a health care professional as concerns dust related health issues, so I hope to be corrected on anything I posted that may be innacurate or dangerous.

I can't vouch for the medical information/claims on Bill Pentz' site, but insofar as we agree that free dust can cause problems, it's logical that capturing as much of it as possible is prudent, and it sure seems that Pentz has done excellent research on dust capture. Also, his fundamental point that it is the smallest microscopic particles which are both the hardest to capture and pose the most health risk is corroborated elsewhere - see article in American Lutherie #86 for example.

Reviewing Pentz's site doesn't look like he's selling anything per se. I choose to believe he's really about providing a public service to fellow woodworkers. He is of course associated with ClearVue in that they sell his cyclone design. It makes sense that he'd get a cut, but I don't feel he is in any way hyping the dangers of wood dust to make money.

Also, I'd like to reiterate my mention of the SinuPulse for nasal irrigation/sinus lavage. The thing really is the business. The ideas of its advantage over a neti pot are that the solution is delivered under slight pressure instead of just gravity which gets the saline into deeper recesses of the sinuses, and that the stream pulses. Apparently, abuse of your sinuses with dust exposure can eventually shut down the activity of the cilia which line the sinus walls (these are microscopic hair like structures that keep mucus moving and eject the junk that accumulates in your air passages). Supposedly the frequency of the pulsating stream matches the natural oscillation of the cilia and helps stimulate them back to life. I've never had what I'd call excellent dust collection in my 20 years of woodworking and my sinuses are quite thoroughly abused. Whereas a neti pot feels like a very superficial rinse for me, this thing does a much deeper cleaning and makes my nose feel healthy. Also, I've trained my kids to use it and witnessed some serious "oh my God" globs of gunk get ejected when they were sick. If you find a neti pot doesn't do much for you, check it out.

Peace,
Sanaka

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...imagine there were no hypothetical situations...

Yes Sanika that product does look fantastic. I highly recommend it also.

But it can be very effective to do the simple nasal lavage that I showed a link from the Mayo Clinic.

Bill Nixon

"I covered the ER for a large interventional cardiology group for many years and cannot say I ever remember anyone in trouble because of antihistamines"

Bill this is more of a chronic problem that would not really show up as an acute cardiovascular event requiriing emergency treatment. You are right that antihistamines don't have cardiovascular side effects but many sinus meds are both nasal decongestents and antihistamines. Antihistamines cause drowsiness, dry mouth, and other things. they should only be prescribed by a health care prescriber.

I hope we are on the same page here, I am not saying to avoid all sinus meds, but to consider nasal lavage as a first line of defense against the chronic dust that we are exposed to. Consult your medical professional before taking any medications, OTC included.

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Ken

Agree - DO NOT take any medication and use power tools before you are aware of how it may affect you. Some people find Zyrtec very sedating.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Jon Nixon, sorry I called you Bill.

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Ken

First-Generation OTC Antihistamines:

-Brompheniramine (brand names: Dimetapp Cold & Allergy Elixir, Robitussin Allergy & Cough Liquid)
-Chlorpheniramine (one brand name: Singlet)
-Dimenhydrinate (one brand name: Dramamine Original)
-Diphenhydramine (some brand names: Benadryl Allergy, Nytol, Sominex)
-Doxylamine (two brand names: Vicks NyQuil, Alka-Seltzer Plus Night-Time Cold Medicine

Literature says:

Talk to your doctor before using a first-generation antihistamine if you have any of the following health problems:
-Glaucoma
-Trouble urinating (from an enlarged prostate gland)
-Breathing problems, such as asthma, emphysema or chronic bronchitis
-Thyroid disease
-Heart disease
-High blood pressure

Second gens are Claritine, Zyrtec, Allegra. They "selectively" antagonize H1 receptors that are more localized to mucus membranes. These do not have the same warnings as do the first generations.

All medicine (even vitamins and herbals) should be mentioned to your doctor and pharmacist(that's why it is good to only go to one!). The pharmacist is a HUGE recource of knowledge concerning all medicine...and no co-pay

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Been away, so I am chiming in late. My asthma used to be so bad that any strong fragrance would trigger it. So, even all dust filtering is insufficient. Cartridge filters with charcoal or some other compound to remove odor might work, but I understand that they get "used up" once the wrapper is opened, just sitting around--so watch for that. We got part of the yard fenced with cedar a few weeks ago, and I get a little lung action just going into the yard. As noted by others, you need to get out of the shop while still wearing protective gear, and leave a filter on a timer in the shop.

Yup.
And drop the dusty clothes before you get too far into the house.

If it is any hope, allergies do seem to change over the years. As a child I was violently affected by Timothy(hay/grass) but haven't been bothered by that for many years now. Not that I am free of all allergies, mind, but age does have a few benefits! My sisters have noted similar changes, though they are reluctant to mention the 'age' topic at all!

Cheers
John

My ENT recommended this to me. I would get allergies quite often and bad. I used this for 3 weeks in January of this year and never had one episode yet. When I felt onecoming on in the fall, i used it twice a day for a week and nothing. Your results may vary

Just remember to breath through your mouth

Here's just one of many wood list with the possible toxic reactions I found.

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/wood.toxic

There are more lists out there as well.


MK

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I'm outside looking in, just farther from the window than most.

Well Paul,

Sorry to hear of your "situation."

Of course you have a few choices

a) quit working with wood
b) spend your money on white mans medicine (drugs and gadgets)
or
c) deal with it


So lets move to C)

As I use to tell the Dr.s when I use to teach...me say... "Dr., If you learn to give the suggestion properly, your patient will get well in spite of your treatment."

My suggestion is...go find a really well trained hypnotist. "Get inside your head and deal with what ever is bugging you."

Now both them words I wrapped quotes around always raises up dust storms. So go ahead dudes...rant on if you wish. I will not respond any further to this topic or the concepts expressed here in.

But thats my suggestion to you Paul.

Good luck with your choice, your situation or if you prefer "your allergies"


Blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

...you crack me up brother

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

I'm no doctor..nor do I play one on tv..


I have been working with Leopard wood this past two weeks. The first week I had rash all over...especially where I sweat. I went to the doctor and they gave me a Steriod of sorts. It cleared up. So I went back to work. The second week, I worked in long sleeves and an mask...now my eyes are swollen like Rocky Balboa after meeting Apolo Creed. The Leopard wood is the only wood I have encountered that causes this...and nothing else has changed in my life or habbits. So it must be the wood.

I will probably just stay away from this wood after this project is complete. In the meantime, I am about the seal my project with Shellac which should end the contamination I keep getting.

Joe

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Joe

Neil Med nasal rinse for me too. At least 2x day, or more when I'm really working on dusty phases.
I remember a hand cream that was used to keep grease from sticking when working on cars. Haven't done much of that work of late, or even if it would slow down absorption of oils, etc. Look in auto parts suppliers for it.
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

Joe-
Absolutely-the wood or (perhaps) a mold or something on/in the wood. Take precautions and avoid in the future. (Allergies are real...)
A couple of allergy anecdotes-
1) Years ago I thought I was interested in making woodwind instruments and read a story about a (low allergy) craftsman who built a 'special' recorder from a primo turning blank in his collection. When the gift recipient put the recorder to her lips, blisters quickly followed. Recorder was cocobolo- lesson learned.
2) I belonged to a boat-building co-op group for a number of years (while building a sailboat for myself). One of the members had a beautiful wood-epoxy cold-molded 50-footer in the works. (He could afford to rent an enclosed and heated space- probably part of the problem). He became so sensitized to the (not a common brand of) epoxy he was using that he couldn't even enter the building site without having his eyes swell shut- something which took many hours to subside. He had to hire an outside boatbuilder to finish the project.
So it is important to keep those exposures to a minimum! BTW, I find that using (a non-HEPA) vacuum for cleanup is one of the worst things for me. Fortunately, I live in a mild climate and my saws and sanders are in the garage where I can keep a good breeze blowing through. My car (outside) gets a bit dusty some days....

Cheers
John

Yep....I use a shop vac (non hepa) for my dust collection during sanding etc. The garage usually is dusty when I am done even though I have controlled a large portion of it. I love the leopard wood, but I guess this will be my last build with it. The Jatob, Purpleheart, Panga Panga and Ipe don't appear to bother me. But the minute I get a little of the Leopard dust going, my eyes water and start to swell and redden.

I just did a search and many others seem to have had a simular reaction which includes redness around the neck, arms, and groin area.

The necks I am working on are just about done, and all the sanding on the Leopard parts are complete. I just need to fret the Panga Panga fret boards. I think I will seal the necks before doing any more work. It will reduce or eliminate whatever it is about that wood that is affecting me.

Thanks,
Joe

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Joe

Update!Started cleaning a wee bit,but have been a bit paranoid to return,i'm still far from cleared up and am coughing deeply,some other ailment might have joined the party.I'm ordering the sinuspulse kit and will march on.Thanks for all the responses.p.s Padma the idea of hypnosis is not that far fetched,i'll try the more visible first.Peace,Paul.