Official Luthiers Forum!

This stuff is tough to work!
After the last time thicknessing Bubinga, I set up my safe-t-planer and table to roughly thickness sides and back before finishing with my 10-20 (I had to use 36/60/80/100 grit last time, and go real slow)
The planer/table is properly set up as per all the guides I could find, about 1/1.5 thou thou lower at the feed side of the table (left) and level on consecutive passes, using hold downs.
It works works well with mahogany test pieces (with shower curtains of course!), and cutters are sharp.
But when I feed the Bubinga (sides at the moment, light cuts, about 0.2/0.3 mm) in it tends to "grab" the wood and pull it in "jerks", and I have to hold it back rather than feed it in like with the mahogany.
I checked with a run on the mahogany again after the bubinga - fine.
Does anyone have any suggestions or observations or is it just this typical of tough, figured wood?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I have a "real" planer (straight bladed, not spiral) but I'm worried about chip-out in such figured wood.
And you're sure right there, it isn't mahogany!!

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Thank's the next thing I think - it's virtually new, just test runs, but better it sharpen myself.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Are you talking about honing the inside or outside edge?
The instructions say not to hone the burr off? I did have reservations about this... maybe this was to prevent people rounding over the cutting edge on the outside.
Any advice welcome, I've not used this tool before in earnest.
My drill press vice is broke, so I've ordered another one as it seems the best way to do it.
I have a couple of the planers, both originals.
Wanted spare cutters, but of course. out of production. Was lucky enough to get a second new and complete. (Thanks again CS)
Virtually no milling marks with the hog at the moment (unlike the bubinga). Looks like a quick sand would finish it off.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Colin, I have planed (using a standard straight blade planer) figured bubinga multiple times. Of course you must be gentile (small increments) and you may get very small tear-outs. But if you stop a little proud of 1/8", and let your drum sander take care of the rest, those tear-out marks will disappear with the sanding.

Regarding the Safe-T-planer, I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is nothing safety about this tool.

_________________
Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I may try that on my next set of (thickest) sides.
But unfortunately I only have a 6" planer so it's the backs that are my problem.
Some of them are almost thick enough for fretboards!
BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with your observation about the "Safe" part, it requires a good deal of care in use.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Couldn't agree more. One of the most dangerous tools I've come across in my 25 years of woodworking. Up there with the Lancelot...


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

_________________
Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

I've never used a safety planer, but I do have a normal planer in my shop.
With figured wood, I still prefer to thin it on the drum sander. I use 60 grit, high feed rate and VERY light cuts (~.01" or less) down to final thickness + about .05". Then I switch to 120 to 180 grit for the last few passes. I don't see any real advantage in working through the grits on the drum sander, 4 or 5 passes with the finer grit gets rid of the courser grit scratches, MUCH less work than skipping grits when hand sanding.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

'Safe' applied to any power tool is, of course, stretching things a bit. Still, comparing a properly set up Safety planer to a Lancelot seems about as much a stretch in the other direction. I will say, though, that the second Safety planer I bought was not as well made as the first, and this lead to problems in use: you may have gotten one of that generation. Those improve a lot with a good tune-up.

I've always found having the table perfectly level to work best. Also, I take a very narrow pass the first time through, so that the cutters are not crossing the surface too much as they come off the edge: a 3-5mm pass is plenty. Subsequent passes are half the width of the tool, and no more: I don't want it cutting at all on the side that's pulling away from me. That's asking for trouble with any power tool.

I don't hone the edges at all; just use them off the wheel. You must get the edges aligned correctly, which sets the depth of cut of all three cutters to be the same. That's the most important thing (aside from sharp, of course). Having the cutters at even slightly different depths can cause it to grab things and throw them, and that was the problem I had with the 'new' one I bought. It turned out that neithe the cutters themselves nor the pockets they went in on the tool were really flat, so they would not hold a setting. A bit of lapping and scraping fixed it.

Oy vey , already ...

???

_________________
Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

If you haven't watched Robbie O'Brian's Luth du Jour about the safety planer, you should. Its on the LMI site, and probably others.

Don't worry. Never mind the quality, feel the width.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Thank you, Colin ...even if only one person gets it, it's not a total waste of space ...

Alan, took me a bit time (I can be dense) but that makes perfect sense, and explains my problem with the tougher wood (and the small blowout I had)
I'll do that - at the moment I have a fold-back fence to allow max size passes (2 each side give about 9 inches).
I got greedy and it doesn't pay!!
I'll check out the tools as well for set-up and sharpen the cutters.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

First time I had a Safe T Planer I planed bubinga with it... it wasn't bad, no grabbing or anything. Second time I bought it (the one I have now) grabbed pretty much everything it cuts, be it ebony or whatever. The only thing it didn't grab was mahogany. Then I sharpened the cutter as per the instruction... big difference. Now I can plane bridge blanks free handed.

Does anyone know where I can get replacement cutters? I mean what do I do once I run out of steel to sharpen? Also how do I set the cutter? I notice a mark on the planer itself and I always match the tip to that... but I wonder if there's a better way to do it. If someone made carbide cutter for this it would be great.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Yeah, set the tip of the cutter to the line. The company that made the planner took it out of production so it is likely that replacement cutters are unavailable.

So what happens then? Will anyone else pick up production of this or will cheap knock off cutters work?

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

No and no.

My thanks to Alan and Todd.
My sides are down to 2.5 mm with the Safe T Planer, the 10-20 will do the rest.
Sharpened and honed the cutters, and only took half width cuts each time, went pretty smooth.
Still got a little blow-out (2-3 mm) at the edges despite taking only 3/4mm cuts first, but I have enough spare width anyway.
Next time I may try beveling the edges, see if that helps

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

So what do with the safe T Planer when I sharpen the cutters to the point that it no longer has enough steel? I hate for it to become junk just because it's missing a little part...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I guess you will have to resort to hand planing.

My Safety planer gets a lot of use, both by me and by my students. A set of cutters lasts me about 12-15 years, as near as I can tell. You might be able to find some replacements on E-bay before yours get used up. I bought a spare set from Grizzly when I heard the company had gone out of business, and still have five or six years left in the cutters on the tool, so I figure I'm good for another 20 years or so. By then I'll be almost 85, and may well not be making as many guitars or teaching as much.

There is another company making a similar tool.

However their cutters don't fit Wagner's tool...

I'm even wondering why don't anyone produce replacement cutters for the tool? It doesn't look all that complicated to machine. In fact I'm even wondering about carbide cutters for this tool that would make the cutters last even longer...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Paperweight.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.