Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello,

I usually pore fill with zpoxy. I've had good success following Todd Stocks videos on YouTube. Zpoxy is very forgiving with the mix, cures pretty quickly, pops the grain, etc.... all the great stuff about zpoxy.

The one thing that still troubles me though is getting buildup in all the angles of the headstock and around the heel. I have a tough time getting these problem areas level without accidentally sanding through on the edges.

I'm working on French polish as the way to finish going forward. Therefore I'm considering just moving to pumice pore fill on the neck. Something a little more forgiving and more inline with French polish. I'm thinking still use zpoxy on the body. I've had good results there. I'm also thinking of staying with the zpoxy on the headplate and backstrap only. Then doing pumice on the rest of the neck.

What do you folks like to do for pore fill on the neck?

Brad



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"Is this the one where I trot downfield and act like I'm lost ?" - Billy Bob

I'm a Z-Poxy guy, too, Brad. I've had really good luck with necks. I usually spread it on with the squeegee and then rub away the excess with my finger in those tricky junctions. It seems to produce a well-filled and smooth layer to top coat.

What abrasive do you like to use to level it? I got back and forth between maroon and grey scotch brite.


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"Is this the one where I trot downfield and act like I'm lost ?" - Billy Bob

No so much experience, but I'm right in the middle of this, epoxy on a neck. Third, and hopefully last coat. I'm a "smoothing with a gloved finger" man totally, no squeegee on necks.
Rather than the scotchbrite, I prefer paper abrasives on various small sanding blocks (shaped erasers - rounded, wedge ended, flat, etc.) and as light a touch as possible in those places, especially at the headstock.
I tried scotchbrite to start with, especially in the early coats, too "spongy" to control and ended up going through the epoxy every time. May use it for that final light scuff after I get some decent build-up.
Oh, and I use a light touch with a scraper for initial levelling of the heavier early coats, just to speed things up before the abrasives, not that I'm recommending you try it.

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“There are two men inside the artist, the poet and the craftsman. One is born a poet. One becomes a craftsman.” - Emile Zola

I just use sanding dust and shellac. I sand the neck and without wiping it down I give it a quick coat of shellac with a muneca.

Then sand and shellac again.

Takes quite a few repetitions, but gives a great pore fill that looks natural, and the sanding and shellacing take only a minute or two per session.

I use z-poxy on the neck too, applied with a gloved finger for the whole neck. I haven't had a problem with build up at edges or corners using that method. I level sand with p400 sandpaper and stopped getting sand through at the edges once I started using squares of sandpaper double-stick taped to a firm foam sanding block. That approach is based on a tip that I think I got on this forum. Previously, I had been just wrapping the sandpaper around the block, but since the paper rolls around the edge of the block, the sandpaper isn't truly flat on the sanding face. As soon as I switched to double-stick taping a square of sandpaper to the face of the block, the sand through stopped happening. I also use a light touch at the edges.

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Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge - Charles Darwin

Zpoxy with gloved hand for me also. Sand with 400 with a foam block, light touch...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Old fashioned oil based filler for my necks.

Pumice/shellac. Sometime old school is best.


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I like epoxy also.

I use nearly the same technique with Zpoxy and System Three.

For the body I spread with a squeegee pretty much as Todd Stock shows. On the neck, I use something flexible like an old credit card or hotel room key card or maybe a small squeegee. I do a section at a time, like a back or one side. Once that section is done I quickly warm it up with a hair drier. Not hot by any means, just a few passes. To much heat and it will bubble, you don't want that. When it's right the epoxy will begin to flow easily. Then I take a foam brush and quickly go over the area. That removes excess epoxy and smooths the ridges. Just do it once per area, per coat.

Note: If you are using an epoxy such as Zpoxy, that is susceptible to amine blush and there is a fair amount of humidity in the air, then you will want to warm the wood a little with the dryer Before the epoxy is applied. That will drive off any moisture and greatly reduce the chances of a blush occurring.

After the coat is finished I let it sit until it is dry enough to handle. Then I proceed with the next coat. It usually takes three.

If you wait for a full cure between coats it will not bond as strongly between layers. Before you start applying a finish over the epoxy, be sure you have given the epoxy enough time for a full cure.

The foam brush is the ticket for a smoother coat requiring less sanding.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

This thread reads like a Urologist's forum.....

I used... the gloved finger too as a RIN tool (rub it in) and also to smooth it out toward the end.

As I always dyed necks, I never filled the mahogany at all. I double sprayed the necks...for every coat of lacquer on the box, two went on the neck.

I have used glu boost fill and finish and their accelerator on the last few necks and have been very happy with it on the neck. I pad it on with a paper towel knock it back with some 400 grit sand paper and repeat until I am happy. I follow with shellac and royal lac but I suspect the CA might be an ok finish as applied.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

Hesh, who knows, there may be some urologists on the OLF...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I use the same process as I do on gunstocks, what use to be referred to a "Hand Rubbed London Oil" finish.

Dry sand to 400 or 600 depending on the porosity of the individual piece.
Liberal soak in coat of Dembart Gunstock/Checkering Oil. [Similar to TruOil but quite a bit thinner].
Let dry thoroughly.
Begin wet sanding [usually 600 to start] using the same oils as lube. Creates a "slurry" of wood dust oil that I then hand rubbed in.
Dry
Continue with this up to 800 until all pores are filled.
Final wet sand and aggressively wipe off any slurry.
Dry
Hand buff any dull spots [slurry that didn't get wiped away] Usually with 0000 steel wool or 1200 paper.

Let dry/cure for a few days

Then

Several very light coats [drops at a time] vigorously hand rubbed in. FRICTION/HEAT is your pal here.
Let thoroughly dry between applications

Final coat of wax... usually use a wax from DemBart as well.

Smooth and slick as a baby's patootie.... nice semi gloss that looks like a Holland & Holland or Purdy........
And so easy to repair down the road.

I've tried many different pore fillers (except epoxy) and have settled on Aqua Coat. I've done the past 6-7 instruments with it and haven't had any issues. Super easy to apply...I seal everything with 3-5 coats of 1 lb. shellac, wipe on Aqua Coat in sections with a paper towel, get it as smooth as I can, wait a few hours and let it dry, sand it back a little, a few seal coats of shellac, one more application of Aqua Coat, let it sit overnight, next day sand back a little, then seal coat with shellac, then onto build coats. Same procedure for neck and body. There is still some level sanding to do while making up the build coats to make the pores completely disappear, but this is the case with all other pore filers I have used...Aqua Coat is just easier to use and less messy. Since I use mahogany for the neck the pores are smaller so they fill up quicker than most hardwoods I use for the body.

I use dyed joint compound. -two coats sanding in between.

I am happy with Aqua Coat too. Easy to apply with a bit of fabric. Two goes pretty much does the job. Only downside is the relatively long wait for it to go off.

Dave

Urologist? Or proctologist? It cracks me up that just the sound of a glove being snapped on works as a punchline.

A couple of tips for sanding. I've got about half a dozen pink erasers floating around. Often the perfect mix of give/stiffness.

The other thing you can do for odd shaped sanding blocks is to slice up flip flops from the dollar store. Easily carved or sanded to just about any shape.

Steve

Sorry I'm an idiot! I have used Aqua Coat but found I needed several coats to do the job.

I now use Jecofil which I much prefer. It is a traditional oil based filler but works really well. A drawback is the 12 hour hardening time.

Made by these people:
https://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/ ... iller.html

Not so useful for people not in the UK I guess!
Dave

Ah, thanks! I wondered what I was doing wrong with aqua coat because although I like it, it takes me about 7 coats! l

I developed a technique for Aqua Coat to get it on in as few coats as possible. I never need more than two coats..one coat would probably do but I do another one to make sure I didn't miss any pores. I do a small area at a time; so for the back I would do about 1/4 of it at a time. I get out a glob of Aqua Coat about the size of a quarter on a paper towel, rub it in with a circular motion and keep rubbing and flattening it out until it gels up and starts to harden. The key is to keep working it until it hardens and starts to grab the paper towel. Then I do a few straight strokes with the grain to smooth it out. That's all there is to it. You'll still have to do level sanding with the first run of build coats but this is the case with all non-epoxy fillers in my experience. Aqua Coat is the least messy of them that I have tried.

Nothing. Birthday suit. It's a curved surface therefore open pore looks fine.

For satin necks I use Pro Custom Oil, available from Brownells. For gloss necks I use Wood Kote.

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Egg white on necks. cheap, available, none toxic and effective.