Official Luthiers Forum!

Well, I did't mean it that way...

Just recently, Mark Zuckerberg visited and invested in a start-up tech firm here in Lagos Nigeria. He didn't have to send money down or anything, he came because he believed in the promise of Africa (and Nigeria is arguably the largest market). I'm sure you can find details of his visit online.
My point is, If anyone is interested, Nigeria is a safe place to visit. And the trip will definitely cost you little, and when you are convinced, you may take the risk.

If all I can achieve from this thread is to plant this idea in some potential investors mind, then I'm fine. You may spread the message to anyone/firm capable of doing their research and possibly taking up this idea. For me, If I can succeed in attracting foreign investors and thereby creating jobs for the youths in my country that need jobs, then I'm good. I'm one of the very few privileged Nigerians and I really don't need anyone's financial aid.

Even if I had all the money I needed for this startup, The missing ingredient here is the knowledge and expertise. There is no guitar manufacturing company to model here in my part of Africa and there are no trained professionals. I'll rather invite an existing company to startup.

I admire your drive and motivation. Good luck with this venture.

As someone who has worked with several small startups looking for capital, I certainly have empathy for your apparent frustration. You are not a beggar with your hand out, nor some scam artist. You passionately believe in your idea and are frustrated that no one else seems to see the opportunity you see. That said, I cannot imagine a place less likely for you to find what you are looking for than this forum.

It is akin to standing in a squatters encampment asking people to help you build an apartment building. Most of the people on this board are hobbyist and amateurs who would dearly love to have the opportunity to build guitars as a business. They dream of nothing more than to have the capital to invest in their dream of a guitar workshop. I suspect that very few here have any capital to invest in any business venture, let alone a speculative one in a distant nation. I certainly don't. The default position of the vast majority of Americans is that we have no savings, no capital to invest, and are in debt to our last dollar of income.

Mark Zuckerberg is not representative of Americans in general. He, and his small cadre of global billionaires, are as unreachable to the average American as he is to the average Nigerian. Again, I suspect most of the people on this forum could not afford the airfare to Nigeria. Let alone have the resources to build a factory there.

If you are serious about your plan I would suggest speaking to a wealthy Nigerian. I know that Nigeria has its share of ultra-wealthy oil millionaires. The chance that you will find someone in Nigeria willing and able to partner with you is much higher than the chance someone here can help. They will have the resources and the experience to evaluate your proposal. If, once you have the money, you need expertise I am certain that you can find someone at the Martin, Gibson, or Taylor factories (or at any innumerable factories in Asia) with production management experience that you can pay a consulting fee to.

Thank you for this contribution.
You really made my day.
I can go on and on to mention all the valid points, but there really is no need.. You said it all.
Thanks again and I will take your advice seriously.

I should be visiting the PRS guitar factory in the US for a tour sometime soon. And yes, we do have able local investors.

Once again, thank you!

Your biggest obstacle isn't the equipment - it's the skilled tradespeople and the reliable export market for your product. Check out the videos of the guitar factories in China... They are very simple and don't rely on a bunch of new technology. They build guitars like American factories did in the 1940's.... And that's the right thing to do given their economic, labor, and regulatory situation.

The American highly automated production model is completely incompatible with the economy of Nigeria. You don't have an endless supply of college educated robot techs, hydraulics and electronic maintenance men, millwrights and engineers. This is a product of our high labor wages and taxes on wages but low taxes, low transportation costs, and cheap duties on equipment.

I would instead first endeavor to learn the craft of guitar building. Then try to make a few trips to Asia to understand how the Asian factories are tooled up and how they operate. Their economic reality is closer to yours than ours is. Learning how to build yourself will enable you to understand what they are trying to accomplish and why they do what they do...

Then - adapt that model to your economic and regulatory reality.

The next thing that occurred to me... I have a friend who tried very unsuccessfully to start a business in Nigeria.... Every single one of his efforts was stymied and undone by the endless spider web of Byzantine regulations and endless levying of fees by officials. Each of these officials wanted their cut but delivered no results except for creating a larger and larger Byzantine web of incompetence, fees, and regulation. After this - he swore that not one cent of his would ever enter Nigeria again.....

I work for a large multinational which experienced a similar situation. The higher ups in the government made all sorts of promises but it was a complete catastrophe on the ground in real life.

How are you going to navigate the Government regulatory situation. How will you get materials and supplies into the country? Top wood comes from the USA, Europe, and Canada... Back and sides wood typically comes from South America, Asia, or India. How are you going to physically get it into your country without it all being confiscated or tangled up in an endless levy of fees, detentions, and schemes designed to steal your goods. My friend lost a full sea-tainer of his product because they wouldn't process his paperwork - and and the ports authority confiscates stuff if the paperwork isn't done in 30 days.

How will you get your product out without it all being confiscated or tangled in customs forever. How will you get paid for industrial quantities of your products given the regulatory situation.

You will need to work out all these details ahead of the investors... They show up with money and expect you to have the know how... You won't get much traction if you just have an idea and expect them to do all the legwork to make the whole thing happen.

This is spot on!

I agree the Chinese small scale guitar manufacturing model is a great way to start in an economy like mine. I only have fears that communication will be an issue... English is my first language and I know most Chinese don't speak English. I tried corresponding with one of their local guitar manufactures but we had quite a language barrier. I'll have to revisit that.

So, I'm guessing its more advisable to visit China instead?

I have a fair idea on how guitars are made cos I've done a lot of online research over the years.
I also did some study under a local Luthier (the only one I could find) here in Nigeria... There's still a lot to learn anyway.

And thanks for taking your time to drop this message. This forum has really been helpful and I appreciate your contributions.

My sincere sympathy to your friend...

I understand my way around the Nigerian system... I agree there are a whole lot of bottlenecks.... a whole lot! But there's a proverb in my local dialect that reads "anaghi aso mgbagbu aga ogu" (Translation: "He who must go to war must not be afraid of death")

Having said that, I'm currently doing an extensive research to get my business proposal and all the paper work ready. I know I would be a tough investor to convince myself, so I understand no one wants to put money where proper work hasn't been invested.

Thanks for bringing this to the fore, I'll ensure I don't neglect even the tiny details.

I admire your spirit and attitude. I really hope you can make a success of your dream and help create good jobs in your community. You might contact Michael Bashkin. He is a well-known builder that has done some consulting work for a Chinese company producing "Avian Guitars". He might have some good advice for you. I think your first step should be to build a guitar. This will give you a feel for what is involved. The big challenge in a factory setting is getting the fretwork and setup right. That takes time and the individuals that do this task need to be really well trained if you are to have efficiency.

I doubt any of us will be able to help you financially but we can offer you advice. Your dream is an excellent one and many of us would love to see you achieve it. My name is Simon Fay. I'm a professional builder and here is my website: www.fayguitars.com If I can do anything for you, don't hesitate to email or call.

Happy Holidays!!!

On line research is not a substitute for actually building guitars, IMO. One of the reasons Bob Taylor has been so successful is that he knew how to make them very well before he got into production. I have had students who understood production and even CNC programming and tooling, but were not very good at making guitars. The folks who have read all the books often are simply confused by the variety of ways that luthiers work. Once you've made a few you'll have a better idea of what needs to be done, and, more importantly, what doesn't. Failing the chance to learn how to build them yourself, you'll want to hook up with somebody who does, who can steer you in the right directions in adapting to local conditions, skills, and financial realities.

The next thing I would investigate is what retail price at the foreign market that you are targeting. Then - with a 7:1 discount between final export retail price in the foreign country and your price ex-factory... can you make it work.

Say you decide to start off competing with a solid mahogany/spruce Asian model. Let's pick a hypothetical retails at $400.00 in the USA. Can you make at least 10% profit over materials and labor at a price of 400/7= $58.

Can you get the top, back, sides, bridge, neck, fretboard, lining, head and tail blocks, inlay material, fret wire, truss Rod, tuners, bridge pins, binding, purflings, rosette, finish paint, nut, and saddle material + labor + facility rental + equipment + staff expense + utilities + your taxes + investors payment + your profit for $58/unit?

If not - what is your projected price per unit including everything above - then x 7 = your projected foreign retail. Can you compete with guitars in this market?

You need a choir, a church, and a pastor who will PRAISE JAAAYYSUS!!!!

Just kidding

At minimum, you want a way to cut materials to a rough size, so a bandsaw. A 14 inch one should work for most purpose but maybe a 18 inch if you can afford it so you can use it as your resaw/rough cut machine. A 14 inch bandsaw and a 18 inch bandsaw takes up exactly the same amount of floor space by the way.

You will want a drill press. It can be a multi function machine that drills holes, sands, planes (using one of those planing attachments). If you got extra money or space, a Bridgeport milling machine or something similar, or maybe just a round column milling machine. It works as a drill press but you can do a lot of other stuff with it, like precision cut bridge blanks.

A belt disc sander is very useful for shaping wood.

Just those will allow you to do a lot. I didn't include the hand stuff like planes and other tools that will cost just as much as the machines. By the way a bandsaw can be subsitituted with a jig saw if you really have to... better than hand sawing. You won't be cutting through thick stocks but you can still do something.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com