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What I'm thinking about may be a baritone guitar, but my research isn't showing me what I'm looking for (or I'm not looking for the right thing).

I'm a worship leader in our local church and I'm always having to capo 3 in order to get the songs in a singable key. Is there a guitar out there with standard tuning is G(low) C F Bb D G?

I'm working on a build right now, could I just shorten the length of the neck? That doesn't sound right (pun). Maybe it depends mostly on the diameter of the strings?'

I'm at a loss. I just wonder if I could get a fuller sound from a guitar that was meant to be tuned to the above definition. Thoughts?

(Apologies for my rambling topic; thanks for all I have learned here and hope to continue to learn.)

--Adam

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Adam

Hi Adam,

If I understand you correctly you are not looking for a baritone (tuned lower than E -E), but you are looking for something that can be high-tuned. Some people build an instrument called a Terz, which is tuned up 3 half steps (like capo on the 3rd fret). There are a lot of different scale lengths and string gauges you could use to get to this configuration. I build an instrument like this myself. It is a scale length of 23.5” and I use extra-light strings tuned G-G. I build it on a smaller body, essentially a ¾ size guitar.

Keep in mind that if you change the scale length it is going to effect bracing/bridge locations. So it may not work if you have a build in progress. Also if you were to put a very short scale neck on a regular guitar body you would end up with the bridge very close to the waist. That will not get you the full sound you are looking for. You may have to play with the body shape a bit to come up with something that works for the scale length and sound you decide to use.

Hope that is of some help.

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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Thank you, Josh! I think you are describing exactly what I am thinking of. As it turns out, the guitar I'm working on is more of 3/4 size (the result of the materials I had available.) I'll look up the Terz.

Wow, this is why I love this forum. Helpful, quick answers. Josh, seriously, thank you.

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Adam

You might also look into tenor guitar designs.

You could... restring your guitar, removing the low E, putting the A string in it's place and tuning the A string to G, the D string to C, the G sting to F, the b to a#the e to d and adding another high string tuned to g. The tension will be slightly less than usual for most of the strings, so if you use extra lights you could go to lights, etc.

Ukulele is tuned G C E A and you can figure out the bottom two strings but it plays in most if not all the keys that you are looking for without really changing fingering (just keys). Consider it as capo on five without a capo. Fret location can be worked out on the Stedman fret calculator.
Think about it.

Bob

The more I think about it, the more it appears that you don't need a special guitar, you only need special strings for the preferred tuning on your present guitar. Somewhere on the net you can find a string seller who has a chart or a calculation to find the correct strings which will give you the tuning that you want at normal tension on your present scale length. The frets are correct for your present scale length.
Why re-invent the wheel.

Bob

If you want to play/build a high strung guitar, by all means, go for it. If you're looking for a different sound added to the mix, that would be a really cool way to do it. However, if you're just trying to get songs into a key that is more in your range, I would just change the key of the song. Some keys are easier to play on the guitar than others. If the song you're playing is in E and you need to go 3 half steps higher, you'd be in the key of G. If the song is in G, you'd go to Bb, which isn't necessarily easy to play on the guitar, so you might have to compromise and just play in A. Let me apologize profusely if that was all really obvious/elementary to you and everyone else.

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sweat the small stuff.

Heath--

Adam is using the capo to get the song into a key where the folks who are singing can comfortably sing it. Of course, using the capo means that he also wants it to be easier to play than using all barre chords. I do a lot of singing in church, too, so I can identify. If it was only about having the song in a playable key, that would be a lot easier to deal with.

Don, thanks for your input. I hesitate to comment much further because I'm not sure I'm adding to the discussion of building a guitar. This is, after all, a builder's forum. I'll do my best to keep it brief and hope I'm being helpful. I've spent a fair amount of time in worship bands, as well. Typically I would be playing a second guitar behind the leader. Often times, if the worship leader had a capo, let's say, on the third fret, I might just play elsewhere on the fretboard without a capo. It keeps things from being redundant and adds another layer. It wouldn't matter if I had been playing a high strung guitar, there would still be keys where I'd need to add a capo or change the key to put the song in the sweet spot for those singing (not me!). That's why I don't think having a high strung guitar, alone, will necessarily solve the problem. Does that make sense?

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sweat the small stuff.

Oh, and as a strictly acoustic player, I try to stay away from barre chords. Open chords = yes. Barre chords = no (usually) .

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sweat the small stuff.

Yes, in a full band situation, I can see the added value of playing in a range other than the other guitarist. But if it's just one guitar, I can identify with Adam's situation, because I deal with that a lot. I am often the only instrument defining the key for those singing.

To Adam, I will say this: think about also going down instead of up. By that I mean, think about going with either a detuned or a baritone guitar for going down 2 frets instead of up 3 frets in order to find a key that can be both easy to sing and easy to play. For example: if you are capoing up 3 frets to play in D, but it is actually in the key of F, a guitar that is tuned down 2 frets will let you play in G, but it is actually in the key of F.

I offer this suggestion because capoing up 3 frets all the time puts you in "tinkly" territory all the time, and that gets old.

Unkabob, good tip with the string calculator. I think I'll try a set of electric strings on my backup acoustic to see how it sounds. The string calculator I found is pretty interesting. Others have probably seen it, but it's very interesting. Here's the link I used: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_string.htm

Also, I'm sorry we diverged from guitar building, but I appreciate all the help and comments and I do intend to use this info to change my current 3/4 acoustic build to a 3/4 Terz build. Once again, I have been helped by the knowledge of the good OLF community.

Thanks again!

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Adam

Crazicarl :
I like that calculator. The explanation is interesting even though it only works on guitar length scales. I suspect that you can work backwards by iteration.

Bob