Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi All,
Back after a slight hiatus (known as kids back in school) and currently glueing up the body of #5. Its Sitka on top of black walnut back and sides, with curly maple binding, as my others have been so far. I'd like to try darkening the side/back a little more than just Nitro over the natural color, but don't trust my taping skills. I was thinking of an alcohol-based dye stain on the bare walnut before glueing the top on or bindings, to avoid the need to mask, then proceeding with a z-poxy filler and royal lac either sprayed or maybe try a rubbed on finish after assembly as usual. Any thoughts? Or pitfalls that are awaiting this approach?
thanks as always, and its good to be back!
Dave F

In my experience Walnut gets pretty dark under finish. May depend on the particular wood, though.


I did use some alcohol soluble dye mixed with shellac to darken a figured cherry guitar, and it worked fairly well.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Here's Black Walnut and Maple under nitro -- I sure would not mess with it. $.02

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

If you are able to stain the back and sides before the bindings go on, you are a much better woodworker than I. I do a fair amount of sanding after the bindings are in installed to get everything back to flat. I would end up with lots of spots without stain and a blotchy looking mess.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Wow. Thanks Waddy. That is beautiful. And much darker than the BW I have under nitro. Maybe I need to select my wood more carefully! Bryan--Thank you--that's just the "I didn't think of that" type of advice I needed! And I assure you that I am not a better woodworker than you! I think I'll just stick with nitro and no dyes or stains for this one, then play around and put all those wood scraps laying around to good use experimenting.

As a rule I've in general considered staining wood to be a crime...

That being qualified, I've found Minwax #209 (natural) to be a great thing for tending to darken just a tad and pop the grain...works great on cherry and does away with the tendency for it to turn bland when vinyl sealer is applied.

Red or orange shellac will darken it a bit, and if you don't like it, you can take it off, but it will darken the binding too.

I had a similar dilemma when I was considering doing a sunburst finish on an acoustic with wood bindings. The only method I could think of to color the back and sides but not the binding was to spray all over with several coats of clear nitro, mask off the top and binding and well as I could, spray some shading coats to get the color I wanted on the back and sides. After removing the masking tape I should theoretically be able to scrape off any parts of the binding that got some shading on it, only scraping back to the initial clear coats. Then do more clear coats.

I've not actually tried it but it may work.

Good luck.

_________________
Richard

Bless me father, for I have sinned. My last confession was.... Oh jeez, I don't even remember. But anyway, I stained this mahogany neck to match the the rosewood body. I couldn't help myself..... Give it to me straight. How many Our Fathers and Hail Marys?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

You may have to post a picture so that the nature and extent of the crime can be assessed.

Walnut under most finishes will darken quite a bit on it's own if it gets any time in the sun. Sometimes it can be too dark to see the grain very well. I wouldn't want to hasten the process.

_________________
Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

I agree!
Mike

_________________
Mike Collins

Here's a Black Walnut/Maple Dred I constructed 40+ years ago. I use it for experiments, anyway at that time I used amber shellac as a sealer on top of Pore O Pac filler.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I find that walnut and cherry darken up very nicely in time. It won't work on walnut, but cherry can be darkened up with a wash of mild alkali. You can use a small amount of lye in water, but I get better results by leaching wood ashes. The mix should just feel soapy.

Here it be, in all its horrible wickedness:

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Jay, that is looking great!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Yes, that is horribly wicked...as a note, I did use the words "in general".

I just had to replace a bunch of damaged drawer fronts and doors in a kitchen, and the painter used a wiping stain on ribbon striped Khaya...totally killed the look...not THAT was a crime, good thing for him the owner didn't throw a fit (I know I would have)

Some walnut is pretty bland looking because it has been steamed to "even out" the color (move the dark brown heart wood pigment into the sap wood) http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/S ... Color.html.
If your's is this type of wood you might want to consider using a dye stain to darken the color. If you use a dark red or purplish stain it may in combination with the natural color give a nice dark tone to the wood. The bindings would also be colored, but would still have some contrast with the walnut. As always make a test piece to see if you like the effect.
It's nice to use beautifully figured and colored woods to build guitars with, but with the artful use of finishing materials even some hum drum pieces of wood can make a beautiful instrument.

If you have the patience, you can get great results with paste wood filler, mixed with a few drops of dark oil stain for contrast and artist's oil color for highlight. I use cadmium red light artist's oil color. Mix to a paste and wipe deeply into the pores. Wipe excess off across the grain. 24 hours later, repeat as necessary to bring the pores level with the surface. Let dry and harden AT LEAST 24 more hours. 36 or 48 hours is better. Buff smooth with 0000 steel wool. then sweep, vacuum and wipe clean with a rag. Go over the whole thing with a strong magnet in a sock. Pick up all traces of steel wool fibers. Finally, seal with a one-pound cut of shellac. Fine sand again. Then build with the varnish or lacquer of your choice.

It's tedious, but it works.