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This is why I don't really like to build on commission. I am building one now on commission. And the buyer wants it because he heard one of my other guitars and loved it so much he wants me to build one just like it. That makes me nervous because I know that it's actually quite impossible to do so. But if I stick to the program I'll at least get close.

Yeah. I've built two with torrefied tops so far, and the results on both have exceeded my expectations. One a slope D. The other a OLF small jumbo. Both of these I've built with non aged tops in the past. Neither of the earlier builds have the punch volume or sustain. But again, hard to make a truly critical comparison, without weighing in all the variables, known and unknown.

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Plus 10 to most of that. I don't believe in lightweight guilars, never believed in lightweight tops
and don't believe in lightweight bracing. Some may put lightweight in fine, exponential words, but I'll just say...Larson.

Rocky:
It is actually quite possible to predict some of what will happen objectively to the sound output of a guitar in many cases when you make one or another change. For example, adding a 'port' in to an existing guitar will always raise the pitch of the 'main air' mode, and make it more powerful. What you can't say is what that might sound like to a particular listener or player;whether that's 'good' or 'bad'.

It's also quite possible, and even not too difficult, to test the wood you use to find it's properties. Some of us have been doing it for years. After a while, when you have enough data, you might start to see correlations between some of the wood properties and your impression of the tone of the guitars. Somebody else might hear things differently, of course, but that doesn't matter in a sense. If you can come up with any sort of objective correlation with the sounds you like, and can figure out how to move the sound in one direction or another by the choices you make, you're on your way to making more consistent instruments. Of course, not everybody will like the same things you do, but that's OK too. All you need to do is find enough folks who agree with you who will buy the things you make; you're not trying to sell one to everybody.

DennisK:
I think we're actually saying the same thing. That was my point number 2. Many of us use more or less 'standard' sizes, shapes, and brace layouts, based on designs by Martin or Taylor or Gibson. For one thing, this makes it a lot easier to buy decent cases! We don't just build copies, though; we change things like the thickness of the top or the sizes and profiles of the bracing to try to optimize the outcome, based on our own understanding of the way the things work and the material we're working with. This is something we can do that factories simply can't. For the most part it amounts to 'build tweaks', as I said, although it can lead to substantial re-design in some cases.

I've been at this long enough that I've seen several 'radical' designs or features that were very highly touted come and go. Naturally, nothing of that sort ever completely dies out, but I can think of a couple of systems that made big claims about totally revolutionizing the field that are, at best, on the fringes now, and seldom seen. It's always possible that the latest thing WILL revolutionize the field, of course, but given the history of the guitar so far I'm not going to hang my hat on that.

I always enjoy reading threads like these they get you thinking and in many ways they confirm what we already know.. they are more ways to build a good guitar than we know.. Now I'm a rank amateur when it comes to guitar building and I'm not sure I have enough years left to really know what I am doing, which is of course part of what draws me to this.. I appreciate reading Hesh's and Al's comments here I'm sure they have forgotten more than I'll probably ever know..

One thing I "think" I have figured out is cherry picking ideas does not work what I mean is say luthier #1 does this to his bracing and luthier #2 does this to his neck well then if I do both of those things my guitar will sound better (what ever better is and whoever decides that) well I don't think that is the case I "think" those people who build what most of us agree is a good guitar have through special knowledge or trial and error come up with call it a "system" that produces what they want and picking pieces of other peoples "systems" and trying to make a guitar out of them probably will not turn out as you hoped...

Plan on building a heavy guitar know it will be heavy and build the whole guitar around that premise and it may well turn out good same with a light guitar or a loud guitar or a soft guitar or whatever....

The first guitar I built I sold for a cheap price (it was not very good and it was taking up space in the house) they guy who bought it said " this sounds odd not like any guitar I've heard before, I kinda like it" Bottom line everything effects sound (at least a tiny bit) and everyone hears sound differently.. It does keep things interesting...

Kerry

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So... When I read the title - I said "yep"... But when I read the post... "Nope"...

Things seem to turn out better when they are balanced out... And oddly, it works opposite of what you think.

For example - a heavy neck will probably need a heavy body to balance it out so it doesn't feel neck heavy and unwieldly. Then - you just need a good strap and all is fine.

If I was going to do it... The BRW neck would go on a rosewood body guitar.... And I wouldn't try to go thin on the sides.... And it would probably get a stout tail block to balance things. I think a heavy neck like that would be less desirable on a maple, cherry, or Spanish cedar guitar....

Sound wise - assuming you do your part, it will sound good. I did an oak B/S guitar with an oak neck. It's heavy but it sounds really good. The guitar doesn't give up anything due to the weight of the neck.

One thing I will say is... Carving heavy/dense wood into necks is quite a chore. It's not a spokeshave/draw knife/violin knife sort of job. It's a rasps, power tools, and sandpaper job. Wow that oak neck was a job to shape....

Thanks

All I'd add to this discussion is that in my experience ergonomics are at least as important as sound when it comes to determining whether someone falls in love with a guitar. Possibly more important, as the set up wizards like Hesh can probably attest to.

For this reason alone, I personally would avoid any severely neck-heavy design.

If I understand correctly you are going to laminate the BZ with Maple into a five piece neck. I say go for it. You'll never know till you try. I would think it fits the category of a "little tweak" on a conventional design. Please report back here and let us know how it worked out.

I did see a resonator once that a guy built with a solid BZ neck and it was ##@!! heavy.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Prototypng an idea for a design hunch (as in light top/ heavy body) takes a heck of a long time. My advice is make sure you admit to yourself that the first two are prototypes and build them as quick as you can with the least attention possible to ornamentation, bindings, fine appearance. Just get the dang thing playing, and be ready to take the back off and whittle away or add wood. Once you get the design sounding in the manner you intend, build a beautiful one.
As much as it irritates us, great guitars are usually made by copying other great guitars. The more experiments you put into one guitar, the less you know which change made which difference.

Overholtzer used solid brazillian rosewood for the necks on his "award winning" classical guitars.
They must have been severely unbalanced.

As dense as Rosewood, if not more. Also interlocked grain which seems to have a waxy feel. Basically use rasp, file and sandpaper, sweat buckets on this one. Have four more to use, saving them for people I really, really like. Not worth the effort otherwise.