Official Luthiers Forum!

So the other thread about setting up a new shop got me thinking about repair and how folks typically go about getting started in repair. Like many of the people on this site I have a day job. The J.O.B. It funds all the ridiculous things I find myself getting into, including trying to migrate from a hack to a builder.

One thing that interests me is working at a repair shop to gain overall experience. I don't live in a huge city where there are lots of options and guitar shops, but there must be some options around here (Cincinnati). My thought was to track down any small repair shops and propose I work for free during evenings or weekends in exchange for experience. Is that the right way to go about it? Will they think I'm a lunatic (maybe they would be right)?

I also considered buying some factory guitars from the local pawn and second hand music shops and trying to refurbish them to get some experience. But in that scenario it is still just me, learning from books and the internet. The goal would be to actually apprentice for someone or a group of someones. Correct?

Just thinking out loud.

Brad

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I think the consensus from the pro's the last time this came up was --- no way.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

That's what I would expect. I'm just curious how do you even start?

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Hey Brad!

I'm happy to know that some of the things that we shared from the real-world of Lutherie in respect to repair Luthiers is getting some traction with some including you. BTW you were not the first who started wondering if there is more to some of this then forum life....

How to get started? Believe it or not this is a dedicated profession and many actually go to school to learn to become a Luthier. The Galloup School is residential and they have Master's programs that is highly recommended.

I've known folks of all ages and from all walks of life who have gone to this residential program and rate it very highly. Dave Collins my mentor and business partner is a Galloup grad and former instructor there too. Not only do young, just starting out folks attend this school I recall a retired Ford VP who went here too.

My best advice as you already are doing is to get experience somehow regardless of if it's formal education or finding some one to apprentice with. I jumped into a firestorm of high volume repair work as my baptism and never regretted any of it. The high volume of work taught me to work smart, fast, and accurately and my mentor taught me to apply all of this correctly and it worked out very well for me. Now I'm a partner in a very successful Lutherie repair business with A-list clients and folks contacting us daily from hundreds of miles away wanting to drive to us or ship us stuff. BTW we refuse shipped in work since we don't want to be in the shipping business and besides the post office is nearly 60 feet away....

Regarding apprenticing with a Pro Luthier most of us don't want anyone until they have been trained, perhaps by a school elsewhere. We can't afford to let someone with no experience have at it with the valuable personal property of others. It may be that getting that foot in the door initially is one of the hardest things in this profession but it can be done.

My path was to build dozens of guitars that people snagged up quickly and that folks such as Dave Collins saw were well built. It was my resume of sorts if you will and it got me in the door.

Music stores although a very dicey place often, not always for Luthiers with lots of disadvantages usually but also not always can be a good place to get experience. One way to get a foot in the door there is to build some guitars first and impress the store owner and repair people with your chops.

FYI what's wrong with music store repair work is that the repair Luthier is often not the one taking the instruments in and as such some sales person who knows nothing about guitar repair often sets expectations incorrectly from the get go and then the debacle snowballs from there with you being the one to make it all happen or die trying.... Not good. Music stores also, not always... have interests beyond doing really great work and building lasting relationships with happy repair clients. Or, in other words, if someone declares a guitar to be toast the owner may want to buy a new one at that store... Conflicting interests so-to-speak.

We've had apprentices before and will have apprentices again with the right person. What we believe that we want though is someone with some experience already and what we can offer is a view of the real, billable world and what's it's like to deal with the grease ball weekend wedding player who wants action of 2 and 3....

Our apprentices so far have had some experience and/or were a Master in something related such as woodworking.

My best advice to you is to stay the course with the building and produce some examples of your chops and keep them long enough to impress folks who may consider you for a repair gig. Keep in mind too that the concerns of a hobbyist are very different from the concerns of a professional Luthier. This is evidenced by how glaring it is that the biggest names in the business rarely participate with Internet forums.

A week ago I suggested that there is far.... more to Lutherie then woodworking and some didn't like this message all too much, understandably. I recall feeling the same way. But it's true the woodworking may not come into play for entire days or more when twisting screw drivers with a Strat set-up one step down with heavy bottom strings and setting the trem flat for tuning stability or dressing frets for a guy who his own HBO show.

When you come to our shop next month you will get a view of what we speak of here too and I'm looking forward to meeting you.

Thanks, Hesh. All great feedback and makes sense. I took a look at the Galloup site. Some interesting programs that would be worthwhile. I'll read more about them.

I had considered the big box stores, but again, how do you get started? Looks like the 4 day tech class that Galloup offers might be a way to get started. Intersting stuff.

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I think it's going to be tough to walk into a shop and "apprentice". Most of these places are one man shops that stay that way for good reason ... If the owners loved and cherished working with and supervising others - it would be more than one man

I think your best shot would be to start off by learning the basics of setup from videos, books, and websites ... Experiment and learn the ropes on your own guitars. Take advantage of classroom sessions like Hesh and David's fretwork classes and luthier community college classes as available.

Next... Once you have figured out the beginnings of what it takes.... Get into a busy music store or chain and talk up doing some of the new guitar setup work for them.... That's going to be a part time deal. The advantage here is that the guy who runs the place does understand supervision and working with other people. They may also want some depth in their setup department... Makes it easier to cover vacations, absences, sick time, etc.

Another option is to solicit a local pawn shop to do setups on their guitars. Some may be interested. Others may not be - as it is another cost they may not be able to price into their sales.

Thanks

Thanks, John. I was talking one of the local pawn shops who tends to carry a larger inventory of musical instruments. I mentioned that I was interested in building guitars and had been looking at the pawn shops for guitars that needed repairs in order to gain some experience. He said when I was ready to go into business he needed someone to do setup. So that work is out there once the experience is gathered.

I'll certainly keep plugging away at it and appreciate all the advice. For me there is zero rush. I have all the time in the world and what my wife calls "an inability to sit still".

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