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Chris Ensor
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:04 pm 
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James Orr wrote:
Hey Chris, just out of curiosity, how do you approach florentine cutaways?


James,
I actually just finished one with a florentine cutaway. I did nothing special. I ran it around the jig just like I do a body with no cutaway.

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Pat Foster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:40 am 
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Just thinking off the top of my head . . .

Looks very similar to this one from Canadian Luthier Supply and others that have surfaced over the years. Your zero bar is a nice addition.

IMO there are pros and cons to having a separate dumbbell for each size of cut. If a jig uses only dumbbells with no adjustment, the user doesn't have to pay attention to the yaw of the body, meaning keeping the body in the correct position with respect to the tangent of the curve of the body. This is also how the Stew Mac jig works at the cutter/guide level. They work well because the bit and the dumbbell centers are concentric, in line with each other. On the other hand, it is nice to have the adjustment to get any cut desired, which yours offers.

Seems like a bunch of dumbbells AND the adjustment would give you the best of both worlds, yes? Use a dumbbell that's close to the desired cut, then dial it in with the adjustment. The bit and the dumbbell might not be exactly concentric, but if they're close, the yaw errors would be minimal.

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Chris Ensor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:40 pm 
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Pat,
I was originally concerned about having the cutter being non-concentric to the guide. On version one, I had my machinist make me a set of different sized guides. After using the jig for a while and trying it in its current configuration, I found that it is very easy to use this way. I get wonderful results and find the versatility to be a wonderful feature. It is also great to be able to set the cut to the exact binding/purfling you are using.

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Pat Foster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:16 pm 
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Chris,

That's good to hear.

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jfmckenna
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:52 am 
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That's a beautiful looking jig you got there and very clever too. I built something very similar and was based on the old Laravee apprentice / canadian luthiers model but I'm not getting terrific results with it. I notice that you mention technique is important and that you focus on resting the guitar sides on the outbound ring of the dumbbell first. I think that's probably a good idea. So my question is what happens if you tilt the body inward so that it rises up off that outbound dumbbell? I think that is the problem I have with my DIY one.

BTW what did you use as a doughnut? I had a hard time finding something out there in the wild and finally settled on a piece of door knob hardware.

Here is an older pic of mine that I have modified since.

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Josh H
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:19 am 
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jfmckenna wrote:
That's a beautiful looking jig you got there and very clever too. I built something very similar and was based on the old Laravee apprentice / canadian luthiers model but I'm not getting terrific results with it. I notice that you mention technique is important and that you focus on resting the guitar sides on the outbound ring of the dumbbell first. I think that's probably a good idea. So my question is what happens if you tilt the body inward so that it rises up off that outbound dumbbell? I think that is the problem I have with my DIY one.

BTW what did you use as a doughnut? I had a hard time finding something out there in the wild and finally settled on a piece of door knob hardware.

Here is an older pic of mine that I have modified since.

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XENwIVt-1b-13bR7En04dhbkSCCB4DGI-KMCxN4UA_3VfdWcK3XyrDAj3WM0he7EprYj0VVr8Xyo4jhcBGf8iGb080nHvs1W-XKnh7tLqYb1rlpmcs57Tz8rBpMdmKKFkhqyH7T8CJtUFiAy8e6gNkMeCfrxpi10oJMKn5nPDnEQZwo1EjPKj_YeoyV1TO2QAWO2GJe5LY5hLgkTeM4JQeNwKoVmjacwBW-wvAQtl3gWj22_yTqrdm-QFT6bb-6Hf8qq1Jmx1-
_XgI6oD0Tg90i9C8vfMHE5AAFIjTyKW6BwnGbTWKVtncNjMLOa3lKuy60lJV3sYDZ0pBMmFGekhhaPpyG9kNJhV6SD0zYVZ7j-6FrbUGfNJf7OK7iMYdzRuVz6S2S0m2OcVPB0T8p4ND-DiKz2RKPwtmPgQa1CRXDWPwFhkSUXTYRJ4guaBjcOHXm7QFV_8Dc_7Q1rcF2vZAtQ83pxBcuV3nGrspPSeWc-ahnCqIKI0VQ5UpEXsO0JQP64UbMxhVIfOk-CUp3eZ0jLPtCTQAJcyG81TYw8yGyG4PhOPXv-UgV6NqcoYRY2MksrYg=w954-h955-no[/img]


Just a suggestion if you are finding yourself tilting the guitar body off the dumbell during cutting. I know a number of people who use this style of jig and prefer to cut with it at eye level. So you either have to mount it high, or most people I've seen do this (and I've done this myself) will kneel down in front off it. That way you can always see that you are getting contact on the dumbbell while cutting. With some practice you will get the feel of cutting channels while standing. Another thing I always do is put slightly more pressure towards the back part of the dumbell while cutting. This ensures that if I tip the body it comes off the cutter.

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These users thanked the author Josh H for the post (total 2): jfmckenna (Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:06 pm) • James Orr (Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:39 pm)
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Chris Ensor
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:24 am 
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jfmkenna,
I hope this helps:

Attachment:
Binding Jig Cut Results.jpg


In case 1, you get a channel that is perfectly parallel to your sides (regardless of how square your sides are to your plates). This is what makes this jig so great.

In case 2 you get a channel that is not full depth. This is easily fixed by taking another pass and making sure you are contacting point 1.

In case 3 you get a channel that is tilted into your top/back plate and is too deep. If this is on your binding channel and you plan on using purfling, it is not a big problem. If it happens on your purfling channel you have a few options: 1) If it isn't too deep, blend it in by hand. 2) If it is deep, use a wider purfling or "design option" (inlay). I guess you could try to use a filler as well, but I don't suggest it.

Case 3 is easily avoid if you pay close attention to contact point 1. When I am routing my channels, I am kneeling and only watching contact point 1. I usually take about 3 passes to make sure everything is fully cut. I have done this with every system I have used. Once you no longer hear the bit cutting, your channels are full depth.

The donut is made of a hard plastic- usually either nylon or delrin.


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These users thanked the author Chris Ensor for the post: James Orr (Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:41 pm)
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jfmckenna
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:08 pm 
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That's a great chart Chris thanks. Yeah I think I've run into case 3 a few times and have 'fixed' it by then adding purfling which was not planned but hey, it looks good anyway ;)
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Doug Balzer
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:42 pm 
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I just ordered one from Chris. Looking forward to having no more excuses for less than perfect binding!

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Chris Ensor
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:39 am 
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I happy to announce the arrival of a new accessory for this jig- a solid guide.

Attachment:
solid guide.jpg


This guide makes the jig usable on lots of different sized instruments- from shallow bodied acoustics to ukes, electrics, and so many more. It is interchangeable with the standard dumbbell guide. Boy am I excited about this one!


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These users thanked the author Chris Ensor for the post (total 2): Clinchriver (Tue May 10, 2016 3:40 am) • James Orr (Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:19 am)
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Doug Balzer
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 9:36 pm 
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Got mine. Love it.

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Chris Ensor
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Doug Balzer wrote:

Got mine. Love it.


Doug,
I am glad you like it. I love your bench by the way!

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