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I wonder whether dairy cows find themselves involved in heated arguments over whether 2% is 'real milk' or not?

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A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

Rick is a fantastic guy. He's opened his shop to me many times.

There was a thread on the AGF not too long ago about hobby builders. I didn't explicitly mention it, but I remember a number of years ago, one builder was posting his build threads (for customers) over on the AGF and starting threads here at the same time asking how to complete the tasks.

Perhaps this could be a qualifier to use the term "luthier" - do sites like the AGF allow one to participate without being a paying sponsor?

Actually, I give zero fracks over definition or use of the title. It's a rather senseless word today. What offended my sensibilities was not terminology, but implication of one flavor of the trade as being lesser than another, in the context that a former builder / current full time repair person may be deemed as less qualified to provide as valuable insight on shop tooling choices as a hobbyist builder.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Different David but here's just a start: http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47060&hilit=monkey+see+monkey+do

I find new things to add almost every day.

Connation is everything. I thought that it sounded like the repairman was condescending to the builder. By the way, not everyone on this list is a hobbyist. I for instance am approaching my 500th guitar.

David Farmer wrote;
"No one word can accurately describe the particular collection of skills anyone has. Thankfully English is not restricted to one word descriptions. Just expanding to two. We get:

Experienced (luthier)
Skilled (luthier)
Master (luthier)



Beginning (luthier)
Hack (luthier)
Crap (luthier)
etc.

All luthiers in my book."

You forgot one: Amateur luthier.
This is how I would self describe. Although I have been building musical instruments since the mid 70's and have built a couple of hundred instruments of various types I have never worked at it as a profession. Some may see the moniker in a negative light. I don't.


"I wonder whether dairy cows find themselves involved in heated arguments over whether 2% is 'real milk' or not?"

Woodie, I've known a few dairy cows over the years. They think if it's not warm and straight from the teat, it's not milk.

"Actually, I give zero fracks over definition or use of the title. It's a rather senseless word today. What offended my sensibilities was not terminology, but implication of one flavor of the trade as being lesser than another"

Hi David,
I think you read more into my post than was intended. I certainly don't feel that the repair trade is inferior to the instrument building trade, and as I said, if repairmen want to call themselves luthiers, that is fine by me. The typical auto mechanic is generally more knowledgeable than the average automaker. When Hesh mentioned that as a repairman he hadn't touched a chisel for a week, nor a jointer for years, it made perfect sense to me that as a repairman that might be the case. I was simply pointing out our different perspectives on the issue.

Mother's Day greetings to my fellow OLF'ers.

By the powers invested in me by...well...to be quite honest, the inherent authority of mothers everywhere, I hereby decree (with pursed lips, crossed arms, and espadrilles madly tapping away whilst glaring over my very fashionable sunglasses at you) that anyone here - guest, regular member, or known miscreant - may refer to themselves or others as 'luthier' should they engage in and admit to practice of the craft of stringed instrument building and or repair.

Further, the application of the honorific 'master' is deemed to be an essentially meaningless marketing term on the order of 'artisanal', 'handmade', 'slimming', and 'guaranteed for life', so may or may not be used as fancy strikes.

Do not test me on this, young man.

No - you may NOT go out to play until that shop is spick- and-span, and yes, I can see that smirk quite clearly with the eyes in the back of my head - knock it off.

That's better.

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A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

Wow, what a convoluted thread.

First of all I am a self proclaimed hack. I did this because if you can't laugh at yourself...

Back to jointers, apparently they're not needed by everyone

In my experience, a finely tuned, precision jointer is a pleasure to use. I didn't fully realize this until I stopped using my 6" Grizzly.

Now time for my gratuitous jointer gloat.

My baby is a 12" Northfield built around 1954.

At home I use a 9" (yes, it goes to 9, not just 8) Wadkin from the UK.

In regard to the original post, as has been said repeatedly, if you don't use it, get rid of it.

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I must say, if I a had an old nicely tuned machine like that, I might have a harder time letting it go. The last one I used was a powermatic 60, but one of the more recent ones, either a 60b or a 60c (I don't recall, but after their production was sent offshore. It was just so finicky and hard to keep true and set up well, that it wasn't a tough choice to let it go. If I had a nice older one (they really don't make them like they used to), I may have been more inclined to find a space to keep it, even if rarely used.

Plus I'm an old tool junkie, and that thing is just beautiful. Maybe someday I'll retire from the city business, and get a place with a nice outbuilding that I can fill with old tools like this. For now, aside from our third floor historic shop not being able to support a tool like that, the cost of owning it would be about $300 a year just to pay for the floor space it occupies!

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Those of you with such fine old jointers need not despair, the machine in question is a Grizzly 6", so not such a huge loss.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Both of those are things of rare beauty A jointer is all about milling wood, if you do not mill wood then you absolutely do not need a jointer but if you do ..............

I love my old 6" Powermatic but if you decide to join the jointer free builders club I would happily take that Wadkin off your hands. That's a real beauty!

I think your answer is right here.

I personally couldn't do business without a jointer. I have a run of the mill Jet 6" jointer that I just upgraded to the grizzly helical cutter and use the thing nearly every day. That said, I doubt most of you are squaring up 5 to 20 neck blanks a week

A jointer is a great tool and I spent the time tuning mine up when I bought it and it's served me well. If I wasn't doing what I'm doing, I'd use my #'s 5 or 8 to do the jointing for me and when time does free up to actually build instruments, I usually use my hand planes for jointing.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

My jointer is a 6 inch bridgewood. A relatively modest machine that seems to work well and doesn't take up too much space. By removing the guards I can flatten 8 to 10 inch stock, which is about the widest I need. I have used big jointers and they are nice, but all things considered, would be hard for me to justify.
For guitar building I think I could ditch just about every power tool I own and still get by. Not that I would want to. Although not a minimalist, I do try to buy only tools I think will eventually pay for themselves, either by saving labor or material costs. I don't see any wide belt sanders, industrial planers and such in my future.
A workman's choice of tools and methods of work are a personal thing, and although we can speak from our own experience, ultimately it is up to the user to decide.