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I just ordered some Lee Valley fish glue since I felt their prices and size of bottle even with shipping are far better then Stew Mac and Blues Creek. I have never used fish glue so I took a chance on Lee Valley but since Lee Valley has always meant quality to me I assumed this is good stuff. Anyone use theirs? Or they all about equal? What shouldn't I glue with it on an acoustic? Is it okay for bridges and fingerboards? I have been doing research on various other sites and I'm getting varying opinions on bridges and fingerboards....Mike

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I have the same glue, Michael, and I used it to join the plates, glue the top and back to the rims, and for the neck lamination. I am by no means experienced in guitar building, but I've been gluing pieces of wood together for over 30 years, and I like the glass like consistency when it dries. The smell, not so great, but better than epoxy. Leave things clamped for at least 12-24 hours.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

It worked fine for me - I used it for binding and furniture making. Leave it clamped a long time. I used Titebond original for everything else on the guitar.

I use Titebond for practically everything now days. When it comes to hide I simply don't work fast enough. I guess with more practice but I like the casual speed I work at now. I also think my workshops temperature was an issue. It's not cold but it not really warm neither. Maybe low 60's all the time in winter. I'm looking for something with similar results to hide but with longer work times and fish glue sounds interesting. Thanks for your responses.

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As far as I know they all get their fish glue from Norland. I don't think there is another source in North America.

Their site says it's made in Canada. I guess Norland could source their stuff from Canada.

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Another day, another dollar.

I thought it was made from Canadian cod. I never used it much as I don't like the clean up and heard some (not many) horror stories regarding its hygroscopy. But it sure gives one a loooong open time.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I am surprised to hear that you had a hard clean up. I use a damp rag to wipe and warm water and a tooth brush the next day. As for the hygroscopy I never seen that happen or heard of it. You have to use what works best for you. The number one thing is joint integrity . If the joint isn't good no glue will make it better.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I should add that i don´t like the clean up when compared to HHG, which is a breeze to clean up - fish just seems messier IME. Regarding hygroscopy, i believe i read about one story here (something about a guitar that was built dry and sent to someplace in SE asia?) and the other happened with a dear friend of mind, which reported it at delcamp. Basically, a guitar was kept at a newly built home with very high RH and left there unprotected for a couple of months (i know how this sounds...). The guitar swell like mad but in the end it was the fish glue that let go (bindings only), while all other joints (HHG ones) were still going strong. - no first hand experience of this , though, but it did made me think while risk it if hide works well.

I only glued a couple of rosettes and bindings with fish and had no issues so far, which i guess is how most folks go with it.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I've been using more and more of the Lee Valley fish glue and I like it a lot. I use it for neck resets, bridges, bindings, crack repair (the best for it's open time) and just about anything except joining soft wood plates. Though I have not actually tried it yet from what I understand it will leave a dark glue line when joining soft plates.

I built a Zebrano/Cedar OM almost entirely with Lee Valley fish glue. I used Weldon for the tortoise bindings, epoxy for the fretboard, and Titebond for the bridge.

Not 100% sure I needed the epoxy or Titebond , however, paranoia sneaks in after reading so many articles on fretboard and bridge installation.

I find I just keep a little butter dish of hot water and a cloth handy when I'm using it and clean up is super simple. Also, if you like open time and don't mind extra dry/clamp time this is the product fro you.

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

I was a fan of fish glue until I had a bunch of joints fall apart. So far only two guitars that I know of; one was kept in a room with a room humidifier, the other had a case humidifier. So yes, they were probably a little over-humidified. In this climate it's absolutely necessary though. Indoor humidity in a lot of people's houses (especially older homes) gets down to single digits in the depths of winter, on account of forced-air heating. Summers generally have a few extremely humid spells too. So my guitars have to able to handle being occasionally over-humidified (or else dried out) and these ones didn't. One was a pretty easy repair, the other is being essentially rebuilt.

I know it also has a limited shelf life, so to be safe you should buy new bottles every six months whether you've used it or not. I did that, to no avail. I'm never using it for guitars again. Switch to HHG. It's worth it.

I like it and use it for some things. You do have to be careful with it though. It should not be used if a guitar is suspected to be exposed to excessive moisture and heat. I have found it useful mostly for gluing backs on where time is an issue and for mixing with water to wick into rosettes when gluing them in. If using for a rosette, make sure you seal the end grain of the rosette channel, as the fish glue will wick into it and stain the top. Sealing with shellac works or you can seal with a brush of undiluted fish glue. Also, one thing that is very important with fish glue. It should always be stirred or shaken thoroughly before use. As to age, it'll last longer than they say. Shelf life is up to 5 years or so if maintained in a good environment and not exposed to excesses. The test is to put some on your thumb and forefinger and to the strand test. Squeeze them together, wait for the glue to tack and pull apart. You should get hundreds of thin strands. Keep opening and closing the fingers as the glue tacks and the strands will start forming, if it is still good. No strands, throw it out.

The bad thing about fish glue is taking joints apart. You almost always have to get some water or steam into the joint. It's a mess. Even then it does not like to let go. Everything turns black with the introduction of water. I had to remove a back and it was terrible.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Yes, those thin strands were in the gaps where the joints had opened up. Strangely, both guitars were built 4 years ago, and were fine until this winter. When I examined the damage, the glue residue was soft. It seems as though it chemically broke down over a few years until finally it let go. That's just about my worst nightmare.

I have heard of issues like this and that is one of the things I'm worried about. I have also read elsewhere that it's reactions to moisture are no different then hot hide glue and that it can also withstand higher heats. If so why don't we hear of instruments falling apart with hot hide? I'm wondering if it came down to a bad batch of expired glue? Or not enough clamp time.

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Another day, another dollar.

Fish glue is good for almost everything, if you need open time (like gluing the top or the back), it's perfect.
However..
You have to avoid using it with the black 0.3mm fiber sold by Lmii for purflings, the glue doesn't stick at all on it, I had a very bad experience a few weeks ago, I had to redo a complete rosette because of those silly fiber purflings..
Even when the glue was dry, I could pull out the purflings from the rosette channels with pliers, and it was a nightmare to rout again (it makes a very sticky dust when being routed, and makes your routing bit almost dull)..

I have done a little research and found that Norland supplies Lee Valley. I found a post on another site where Norland responded to a question and answer letter and stated it was the same product.

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Another day, another dollar.

Norland supplies everyone and the glue does have a shelf life that needs to be considered.

About ten years ago on the OLF the one who started talking about Fish glue first and introduced us all to it was Dave Collins. He had high hopes and as a Pro repair guy was using it with a frequency that we don't see from builders typically.

Several years after this Dave (and I) started reporting Fish glue failures with bridges lifting if exposed to higher, not abnormally high mind you RH... We reported this here and over the next five years removed and reglued many of these lifting bridges with HHG. We never used fish again for bridges and reported all of this here on the OLF.

Some folks here who were wedded to Fish and had an extensive investment in instruments built with it disputed our claims that we had Fish failures to the point where frankly I'm not even keen to bring it up anymore and this may be the last time that I do.

Information is important even if it's not what we want to hear so here I am, again... with nothing in this for me but likely disagreement and someone being compelled to glue two stick together and leave them outside....again.

But for the newer generation of OLF folks who were not around for all of this we run a professional repair shop and it's a big deal. We have a superb reputation, service over a thousand guitars annually, have famous clients and decades of experience. Dave is very much a scientist and a sought after expert in our field and for research too. We share what we learn because we would appreciate it if this is what everyone did and of course advancing the trade is a major motivator for us.

I would not use Fish for high stress joints if the instrument may be exposed to higher humidity at any point - period! Michigan, where we are is not known to be a higher RH area but it was apparently high enough to compromise our Fish glue joints.

Lastly we were religious about procuring fresh Fish from Norland AND replacing it after only 12 months time. We always are super detailed with process and procedures anyway. The glue failed for us and the unforgivable part is it failed for our clients and we can't have that at all - zero tolerance. Of course we repaired everything even 5 years out on our dime as well.

Use fish with caution based on where you are, where the instrument may end up, and I certainly would not use it for bridges...

I have been using fish glue for over 10 years. Todd Stock turned me own to it. Sylvan Wells had an open house , I think about 2005.I haven't have a failure yet. I do clamp for 24 hr on a bridge. I know many use it as well. It will take a different clamping procedure than tite bond for sure.
I also apply glue to both surfaces. I also use Hot Hide . Tite bond seldom gets used but I won't tell you not to use it.

I also run a pro shop. Build about 25 guitars a year and do a number of repairs. Like anything else there is a learning curve

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

According to the invoices here, we order direct from Norland and most recently paid about $40/gallon delivered in October of last year. The guys here have some older glue samples from 2005 and 2007, and so far, the test samples I have done all dried properly, but some pinkish-colored solids have collected in the bottom of the jars. Is shelf life more a case of appearance than function, or is Norland concerned that the last bit of glue in the bottle might not work all that well?

As a newish builder and repair person, I prefer hot hide glue's easy cleanup, but have not found fish glue to be all that much worse. It certainly helps to wear gloves when working with fish glue, as it is very sticky and certainly not the best thing for longer nails.

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A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

I have had fish glue work well for me, with zero failures. I can't speak to the experience of others - I use it for many things, frequently in repair, and even for fingerboards and neck laminates. I'm glad to hear Dave and Hesh discovered this glue's use for luthiery as it has been fantastic for me. Thanks Dave and Hesh!

Anyone have experience using it with Cocobolo?

Andy

Fish is good for low stress types of building .I/ve had several glue failures with uke bridges and returned to 315 g HHG or titebond

Check out this from Taylor Guitar on the use of fish glue in their newly designed 800 Series.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/content/8 ... abs#tabs-3

Looks like fish glue for the bracing and HHG for the bridges.

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

Great link Raymond and even Taylor does not use Fish for bridges and says so.

Norland says one year shelf life. But refrigeration and freezing can extend it indefinitely. Since I haven't used it I'm just going by what they say.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk

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