Official Luthiers Forum!

Well I guess it's a good thing Leo lived when he did!

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

I know there are different schools of thought relative to website design -- but my experience over the years has shown its most important to make sure people find us (KMG) when they are looking for products and services we provide. And once they get there make it as easy as possible to navigate the site. Certainly its only my opinion but I totally disagree with the flash is cash notion. While a web site surely should be attractive, if its confusing or illogical the customer is gone in a "flash." Just having things bold and distinctive, begging for more clarity or explanation without the benefit of a link (click on it and it does nothing) leads to frustration and lost interest. I am not a marketing expert but we do have analysis services that stress the above strategy and offer suggestions for improvement as well. $.02

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

The "Flash is cash" reference is not about the Adobe Flash video application, but a commonly used marketing term, where the flash refers to visuals of all kinds like the bold fonts you mentioned, as many people shop with their eyes, and some people do more looking than reading, or at least need something to catch the eye before they take interest. By itself without information it is worthless of course.

The having people find you AKA SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is of utmost importance, but is not that easy to get right, very involved and there are varying opinions. In my case for now I am doing mostly repair and although I have a lot of keywords and what not hidden off screen just for search engines. I also have them pointing to my location, and every town nearby, as I doubt that people from further than ~60 miles will seek out my services. I am registered with Google, Bing and Yahoo and have a Facebook page, ads on Craig's list, Angie's list and Yelp, the last two are completely worthless so far, and don't even have a well fitting category for our ilk. Google and Facebook inundate me with emails to pay for ads by the click, which may be a good thing if I had something to mail order, but in seeing the ads I get from other businesses through them from all around the country (rarely local), paying by the click could lead to financial ruin, because so many people are into guitars... and click on everything associated. Clicks have no guarantee! Facebook is not logical, as it tries to sell me guitars and repair services from some of you guys!

" What we need is an eye catcha!"

As for web design here are some common mistakes:

YouTube videos can not always be maximized on other sites (Yours) than YouTube, and also show a host of "related videos" once done playing, both can make the viewer go to YouTube, and away from your site and possibly not come back because they are occupied elsewhere. I purposely made my site in HTML 5, as it can display video and play sound through the browser, no 2nd party anything needed. If I ever get around to it I am not at the mercy of YouTube. It may even be possible to have individual pages in HTML 5 for that reason, but it is not much different from the other ML's.

Links to other web sites, should be made to open in a new browser tab or window, not replace your site. Sure the person can get back via the back button, but the more pages they go through, the further away they get, and attention spans are shorter than they were in the good old day's. If Your site is in a tab standing by, there is more chance they will get back to it.

No pictures are better than blurry ones, so use a tripod or a flash, and always have descriptions of the pictures in their code (AKA "Alternate text" the kind you don't see unless the picture can not be displayed for some reason) because Braille readers automatically read them, and lot's of blind people play stringed instruments. An even better Idea but not that easy, is making the whole site accessible to the blind and braille readers, for us the hearing impaired do not matter as much.

Spelling! One of my greatest down falls, as I am bilingual (German) and went to school there more than here, and although I can formulate a sentence and have an OK vocabulary, mu speling sukks! Words like whether and weather, it's and its throw me off, and ie and ei are opposite between English and German. Spell checkers do not work in context, and be careful which suggestion you click on, or you will write nonsense. I have seen some awful grammar and spelling errors on sites owned by large corporations that can easily afford proof readers.

Hesh misunderstood me when I wrote that I hand coded my website: I did, but I did not learn much coding in the process as Hesh assumed, because I spent weeks of sleepless nights searching for answers, to this and that, and with every solution new problems arose, but through research, trial and error, and even some trickery I ended up with the look and feel I was going for. It was such a confusing mess that I lost track of many details though, and it still needs lot's of work, and some more workarounds.

I did not study marketing either, but I did read a book on "Gorilla Marketing Tactics" written by a seasoned and well known marketing pro. It was a long time ago and I don't remember his name or have the book any more, but he stressed things like "Flash is Cash", but also stuff like real information rather than hype, good versus bad logo, the psychology behind it all...

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If what you see is what you get, then Stevie Wonder ain't got nothin'!

Guerrilla Marketing by Levinson!

Excellent book and concepts and it was a required purchase and read back in the day when I was teaching marketing.

In a nutshell it's a method to promote your products alternatively or unconventionally. The problem that it seeks to solve is not having a marketing budget for the promotional activities. Not sure if I recall correctly but it may deal with one of my favorites, having a "parasitic relationship" with the marketing spend of your competition. They spend money, you benefit. Love it!

I used to manage a group for a Fortune 5 company that they named "Alternate Channels" because my methods were rather.... unusual.... and relied heavily on cutting the BS, honest dialogue, identifying real value and important goals and then going at it like there is no tomorrow. The name, Alternate channels may have had a plausible deniability component too.... I've always been real big on the relationship style of selling, oldest profession in the book.... and eliminating barriers to understanding folks, requirements, etc.

Steve,
I've recently built a website using w*x.com. I'd love to get your thoughts on my modest attempts--I'd appreciate the critique. I realize that I have not yet addressed the "how do I buy one" or "how much do they cost?" questions.

http://www.swannguitars.com

Thanks!

--jay

Hesh, sales can be a devious art though, and when I hear "I can sell Ice to Eskimos", or "He can sell you the shoes off of your own feet" It has the opposite effect of impressing me!

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If what you see is what you get, then Stevie Wonder ain't got nothin'!

I worked for a guy that could, he was incredible, it boils down to telling people what they want to hear

I know!! Little secret here: I worked as a pitch man for a while (sometimes you have to do what you have to do), and sold Super chamois (ChamWows) and other stuff, just like on TV, and although some of it was OK stuff, there was a lot of gimmicky worthless crap too, and you had to use a lot of gaf and lingual strategery to sell it. Although I did well at it, I could not help but feel guilty to prey on peoples compulsions and fake them out so hard.

Once I was selling something with "Surgical stainless steel blades", and some guy pulled out a magnet, and blew my pitch! One of my colleagues (a real pro) would drink on the job, and the 25 foot self retracting garden hose he was selling, grew longer by the hour, and even though he would walk down the Isle reaking of gin, and stretched it out as far as it could go (a mere 22') people took his word for it that it was 50 feet long and stood in line to buy it!

The newest thing they are selling is a cheap scaled down replica of a paint spray gun "just like the ones professional painters use" but it is even better because "you can wear the compressor like a purse"! In actuality it is much weaker than a hand held vacuum cleaner, and when they show it in action they move really slow, nowhere near as fast as the real thing. The commercial has the completely moronic ditz, trying to roll on paint with a near dry roller beyond the point any chimpanzee would dip it back into the paint tray, gives up and grabs a 1" brush also near dry and smears the little bit of paint in every which direction with no method what so ever on the sample board... They even paint a car with what looks like latex!

No one who can walk and talk is that stupid, and it is the most obvious fakery I have ever seen! but you are right, plenty of people fork over the "three easy payments of $19.95".

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If what you see is what you get, then Stevie Wonder ain't got nothin'!

Me too and you didn't hear that from me... Want any ice?

Just so you never sold these......

I had high hopes for this thread -- "Steve" please grab the rudder -- Thank you

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Aargh. I just had a major Hesh-length post and it got disappeared on me. Lemme try again.

Jay, I think the site looks great for a first pass. As you suggested, it could use some more content, along with a few design tweaks (The TX on your title page blends into the "S" on your headstock logo). All very fixable.

But there's one thing that's harder to fix. And Jay, my apologies for using your for an example, but you just put your hand up at the wrong time

In truth, this applies to most of us.

Why should I contact Jay Swann and order a guitar? Is there a single, compelling reason? Do I have a sense of what sets you apart from all the other guitar makers out there?

Marketing is only peripherally about advertising and web sites and nicely-designed business cards.

Marketing is about answering 3 questions. And I apologize for the shouting, but this is important.

1. WHO AM I?

2. WHAT AM I SELLING?

3. WHO AM I SELLING IT TO?

They seem like simple questions, but in fact, they're incredibly difficult to answer. To the point where marketers with kijillions of dollars and some of the best agencies in the world fail.

Look at Pepsi. They used to be “the choice of a new generation.” They were the insurgents, the troublemakers, the opposite of the fuddie-duddies at Coke. What are they now? I don’t know. And I’ve got a pretty good idea that they don’t either.

Apple. They started out as “the computer for the rest of us.” And with the odd misstep, they’ve pretty much stayed there, even though they’re now a major tech ecosystem. Their values have remained intact. Elegant design. Simple interface. Integration across the board.

Apple knows who they are.

Look at some of the world’s best-known builders. Most of them can be summed up in just a few words.

Grit Laskin. Artist.
Jim Olsen. James Taylor’s personal luthier.
Ervin Somogyi. Teacher. Writer. Yoda.
Wayne Henderson. Player. Builds for the love of it.
Linda Manzer. Experimenter. Visionary. Still not quite sure how many necks a guitar has

So how does this apply to all us mortals?

We have to answer that first question, Who am I? And that’s a hard question. It could take years to answer. What sets me and what I do apart from everyone else out there?

You can arbitrarily slap on a label. “I’m the guy who makes great guitars for working musicians that don’t cost and arm and a leg.”

That’s a perfectly valid positioning. Not particularly lucrative, but valid.

Let’s look at those questions again, and let’s plug in an actual builder.

Me.

1. WHO AM I?

I’m a relatively new builder, with 15 builds under my belt, committed to educating myself and building great guitars. Because I’m not trying to make a living from it, I can afford to sell more cheaply than most.

2. WHAT AM I SELLING?

Custom, hand-made guitars. Made one at a time, with hide-glue construction and french polish. For under $2500.

3. WHO AM I SELLING IT TO?

People who want a luthier-built guitar, but can’t afford the traditional high prices.

So if you were to add me to the list of the big kids, above, I’d be:

Steve Denvir. Custom guitars with high-end features. Cheap.

Now to be fair, this is a short-term tactical direction, rather than a long-term marketing strategy. Or at least I hope it is

But the principles remain the same.

And having established that, NOW I can start to think about advertising, web sites and the rest.

So who are you folks out there? What sets you apart? Have you managed to figure that out?

I’d love to hear stories, particularly successes.

And please feel free to chime in with disagreements, questions, spontaneous applause...you know, all that stuff

Steve

Here's our Welcome page info at one of our internet stores -- hopefully it defines the goal of KMG and the store, been using it for years -- suggested tweaks appreciated.

KMG

Supplying the Professional and Amateur guitar crafting community with tools, fixtures, accessories and high quality acoustic guitar kits. We are recognized worldwide for our complete line of guitar molds. It is our goal to provide high quality assembly fixtures that suit the various guitar construction methodologies. For the "first time" guitar builder we offer the KMG "Success Kits" -- In addition to all the premium quality guitar components, this package includes the proprietary guitar construction tools and fixtures not offered in kits purchased elsewhere. Our comprehensive product line includes the most advanced molds, tools and fixtures for the scratch or kit builder. Individuals building or planning to build a boxed guitar kit from our competitors, will find many user friendly products designed to speed the assembly process and improve the overall quality of the project. All our tools and fixtures as well as the vast majority of our products are machined in our shop using Computer Numerically Controlled equipment. The modern CNC process and its inherent precision is a major enhancement to the ancient Luthier's art.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Now you jotted my memory: I think it was "Mark Levinson", just in case it helps searching for a copy, which you should I highly recommend it . It does not get into the interweb, because of when it was written, but the principles still hold true.

As for marketing through the WWW, a book is probably not a good idea, as everything will have changed from the time it hits the market, to the day Amazon sends out the first order for it.

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If what you see is what you get, then Stevie Wonder ain't got nothin'!

Are there any specific examples you can give that have equated to $$$ for your business? Or is this just a fun read?

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Hey Ken, a niece, simple, functional description of what you do. Did you notice that you answer all the big 3 questions in there?

1. WHO AM I?

"Supplying... tools, fixtures, accessories and high quality acoustic guitar kits"

2. WHAT AM I SELLING?

"...proprietary guitar construction tools and fixtures not offered in kits purchased elsewhere. Our comprehensive product line includes the most advanced molds, tools and fixtures for the scratch or kit builder. Individuals building or planning to build a boxed guitar kit from our competitors, will find many user friendly products designed to speed the assembly process and improve the overall quality of the project. All our tools and fixtures as well as the vast majority of our products are machined in our shop using Computer Numerically Controlled equipment. The modern CNC process and its inherent precision is a major enhancement to the ancient Luthier's art."

3. WHO AM I SELLING IT TO?

"The Professional and Amateur guitar crafting community"

You've answered all the big questions. Now it's all about style.

You're pretty formal and corporate sounding. Often, small businesses do that intentionally, in an attempt to appear bigger. Personally, I prefer feeling like I'm talking to a person. Sometimes it's as simple as using contractions. "We're recognized" instead of "we are recognized". So you might want to think about that a little bit. Does your copy actually reflect the voice of the people behind the company?

And one minor point. Please change "the ancient Luthier's art" to "the ancient art of luthiery". Unless it's your intention to talk only to us old farts

Steve

An interview with Lee Clow, one of the greatest ad guys ever. "All things are advertising"

http://adage.com/article/rance-crain/le ... 1450046850

Thank you Steve --- I will be acting on your great advice.


Another question -- is there value in testimonials or feedback comments?

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I love feedback and testimonials. I don't think there's such a thing as having too many testimonials.

Steve

Steve,
Thank you for taking the time to visit my site and give me constructive feedback. I'll definitely try to spend some deep thought focusing my "niche" and then try to express that on the site. I appreciate your time and input.

--Jay