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OK, not counting synthetics.

For a bone saddle....Most bone saddles you can buy are cow bone. OK, but cows laying around in a feedlot don't build dense bone. Bone growth responds to heavy use by getting thicker and denser. That is why I make my saddles from the hind foot bone of a deer. That bone is not supported by muscle, just tendons, and takes the full weight and stress of the animal during jumping and running. It is one of the densest bones you can find (other similar animals would be similar, but are not so available).

I process my own bone...it is fast and easy. Now, let me explain before folks go off on the bone grease, etc. thing. Fresh, natural bone does not have oils within the bone. So, if you clean off fresh bone, and do it well, there is no need for all the fuss, degreasing, etc. First, Do Not cook the bone. That only liquefies the fats and gets them into the bone. It also weakens the collagen and removes some of the calcium (think what goes into your soup). Just cut off all of the ends with spongy bone and cut the bone lengthwise and remove all of the marrow. Scrape the outside and wash with dish soap. Let dry and you are ready to go.



The finished blank is actually whiter than the photo indicates, but it is not like the bleached bone. One hind foot from a large deer will make 2 saddles...the front foot is too small and not flat enough. 1/8" thick saddle blanks are easy to get from a larger deer.

Hope this doesn't sound too "cave man". Just thought I would share this FWIW

Grant

Thanks for sharing that - the more of the harvest that gets used, the better.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Have you thought about selling such saddle blanks? Have you measured the hardness compared to other bone material? Good stuff.

"Have you thought about selling such saddle blanks?"

As to selling such it might get you in trouble with USFWS if you advertised.

"Have you measured the hardness compared to other bone material?"

I would also be curious about that. The average white tail weighs about 100 lbs, a Holstein milk cow about 1300 lbs. Deer legs are much smaller than a cow's, but I'm not sure how densities would compare. (weigh an equal volume of bone perhaps?)

No, I have not thought about selling, mainly because I don't get that many deer feet. Actually, USFWS has nothing to say about it. Bone, teeth, and claws from legally harvested wildlife species can be sold under Minnesota law. You could also buy them from Moscow Hide and Fur in, I believe, Idaho.

I did the density measurements several years ago for deer, moose, and bison (I use the latter 2 for nuts). I forget the exact figures, but all were substantially denser than average cow bone nuts and saddles. A 100 pound deer here would only be a yearling doe. Adult bucks run between 175 and 225 pounds. It is not the weight that make the difference, it is the activity. Bone growth responds to stresses. A cow might weigh a lot, but they are pretty sedentary compared to something like a deer or moose.

Grant

Grant, as you know I use camel bone for the same reason. Camels like deer actually stress their leg bones much more than any farm animal would, with camels it's by hard work carrying loads over decades, rather than the higher intensity activity that a deer would experience, but both activities create a much denser bone structure to accommodate the increased stress.

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,

Where do you get your camel bones?

Thanks,
Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that stress on a bone is not the only factor in bone density. Bone structure has evolved and optimized for the needs of the animal. Birds need light, flexible, hollow bones. Deer need totally different tibia/fibula or ulna/radial structure than a cow. You wouldn't put tractor wheels on a bicycle. I know I wouldn't be able to identify a difference between cow and deer bone in a blind test.

We have one of our 'Grand dogs' staying with us and got a package of bone nut and saddle blanks the day he arrived. Guess what he found while we were out to dinner? Yep..dogs like cow bone nut and saddle blanks. He left me all but two of them and scared us until the vet X-rayed his belly and saw nothing big enough to cause a problem. Be careful with whatever bone you use if you have dogs!

My late great dog and pal Sony when I would sand bone on the belt sander and that burnt hair smell would result he would run in circles frantically and sling drool...... This was a little Yorkie mind you...

It was such a problem since he would not calm down for hours that I mentioned it to the vet. He told me to keep the dog on the other side of the house. As soon as Sony could though he would get into my shop and run in frantic circles again slinging drool.

Tranquilizers were suggested and offered, for the dog.... and I declined.

What eventually did work was to have some real bone that was suitable for him to give him every time I sanded bone. That kept him calmer but wow was this weird....

no worries on the canine...they are evolved to process bones...and this is a problem that needs discussing for awareness...

point being that cats cannot eat dog food, because said food often contains bone meal, and felines (along with humans) are NOT equipped to deal with this. e.g. this will mess them up

Dogs can process raw bones. Bone saddles and nuts are dry and hard and small enough to swallow whole. The concern was that he bit it into sharp shards and would perferate his bowel.

Well, stress IS the major factor determining the density and robustness of bone. As an archaeologist/anthropologist, I have worked extensively with physical anthropologists examining human bone as related to the probable activities of the former "owners" of that bone. You would probably be amazed at what bone can tell about what people did in their daily lives. For example, the cross section of a shin bone can demonstrate the activity of long distance walking on hard or uneven ground by shape, thickness, and density. Bones in the hand, arm, and shoulder speak volumes of what the person did or did not do in life. Bones are constantly remodeling in response to stresses. And, on the other side of the coin, lack of activity shows as thinning and loss of bone mass (think the cow standing in the feed lot). This is well established fact, and there is a lot of science that has accumulated over the decades.

Oh, and with my experience, I guess I am at least some kind of an expert I still actively practice "faunal analysis" where I need to identify which creature a bone (typically a small fragment) belongs to. I have a bone lab full of reference skeletons from dozens of species.

Grant

Mike and Mark,
I don't know where you are getting your information on dogs and cats but I'd take whatever else they tell you with a block of salt.

I've had to do plenty of gastrotomies and enterotomies on dogs over the past 40 years because of bones, raw and processed. Besides obstructions and perforations of the stomach and intestine, they are a great source of bacterial food poisoning after a few days of lying around, and are the source of the majority of slab fractures of the molars I see. There are plenty of safer things for them to chew on.

Bone meal is not the problem with feeding dog food to cats. Dogs synthesize Taurine and so it is not added to dog food. Cats do not, and it must be supplemented to adequate levels in their diet or it's lack will cause a specific, frequently fatal,heart problem as well as saddle thrombi forming in the aorta.

Not to be rude, its just that misinformation can be fatal.

And I'm definitely with Grant on the stress factor and bone density. All structural bone is constantly remodeling itself to the stresses it bears, both density and shape. The bones you have are not the same bones you had a year or two ago.

I have some nice saddles you can come harvest...eating up my dang garden

ermmm...yeah...thanks for the heads up on my ignorance...wow...

Grant,
I bow to your expertise with bones, wood, luthiery and a bunch more things, but I think I was misunderstood. Here's what I wrote: "I'm pretty sure that stress on a bone is not the only factor in bone density. Bone structure has evolved and optimized for the needs of the animal." As someone diagnosed with osteoporosis in my 30s while very active, I am very aware of the role of regular weight-bearing exercise, pounding the pavement and adequate dietary calcium and vitamin D. My point is while physical stress is important to bone density comparisons within a species, to compare deer vs cow bone is like comparing venison to beef. Both are muscle and fat but are very different make-up. No matter how much stress you put on cow bones, they will never be the same as similar bones in a deer. They have evolved to do different jobs. You have taken advantage of this by using wild deer bone over cow bone.

Thanks for sharing this. I pass by a deer processor frequently. I'll have to stop in before Jan 1 and pick up some rear feet to give it a try.

Mark, I did not mean to sound negative. Sometimes words on a screen don't come across totally right. Guess we are both right
Get the biggest feet you can...the smaller ones are sometimes too thin.

Grant