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What type of glue are you folks using for doing multiple neck lams. Titebond, fish, HHG, polyurethane, etc? Clamping time is not an issue, so if water based, I can leave clamped for a couple of days.
Thanks for any help!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I've been using titebond III for the last few. I've used fish, epoxy and original titebond also. No issues with any of them.


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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

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"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

In the past, I always used polyurethane. My reasoning was that it pretty much never creeps, doesn't care about heat or moisture and is not reversible. This is a joint that you never want to undo. I just made a neck 5 piece neck blank and without thinking, grabbed for TB original. I am not worried about it as I'm sure it will be totally fine. I just feel safer with something non-reversible. I don't intend to expose it to high temps (like in a hot car) for any length of time. I'm not even sure if that would be a problem for this joint line. I'll be following along closely.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

We use Original TiteBond -- for neck laminations and every thing else, musical instruments and furniture -- for decades. We do have a special vise set-up for clamping necks which keeps all the parts straight and true. Without such a device the water in the PVA can cause weird things to happen.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Only done 4, all used TB, one clamped 24 hrs, no problems, rest clamped 48-72 hrs for a even simple triple lamination.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I use Titebond also. It does a good job

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

TB 1 and after I rough cut the blank I leave it for a couple weeks or longer........... unless I need to use it sooner of course.

I used Lee Valley 202GF glue for this repair 10 yrs ago, and a similar repair on a Les Paul 8 yrs ago, with no issues.



I'll keep the 202GF on the shelf, though. Don't want to stir the glue pot, so to speak!

Alex


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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I've used Titebond 1 and fish glue for neck lamination over the past 10+ years and never had an issue.

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Would I be correct in assuming that all the TB laminations are for bolt-on necks ...not dovetails ?

I've used fish glue for neck laminations for many years, no problems. I would have used hide glue, but the extra open time with fish is a bonus. I prefer it over Titebond and the like mostly because the parts don't move around as much when you clamp them, and there are no sunken glue lines, which can happen with some synthetic glues. There is also the possible issue of "cold creep" with stressed PVA- glued joints, but I don't think that is much of a problem here.

I think it is a good idea to glue up several necks long before you intend to use them, to give them plenty time to stabilize after introducing water based glue. It's also one of those tasks that can help speed up production, if that matters to you.

Murray, why do you ask about the neck joints? It should not matter.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I'm not Murray but I assume he is asking because they get steam injected into them from time to time. I'm no repair guy but I think if you are steaming a dovetail enough to mess up the center lam, you are using WAY too much steam for too long.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Since I like to laminate my necks with muliple layers of wood and veneers, I got a bit skeptic of all the water in the neck when using Tidebond. I switched to Epoxy for laminating these high tech CFK Carbon etc. Found a suplier whos products are approved for building aircrafts. Very long open time, and these necks get really stiff.

Here a pic of 4 pieces of Indian Rosewood, the middle layer is one piece of ebony and 12 sheets of black / white / green veneers. Sorry for the very poor picture quality and strange colours.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1157931855 ... 0967041490


Cheers, Alex

Whoa .. might lose an eye on those horns !!! Very cool looking lines there ....

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Titebond Extend, Titebond Original, or Hot Hide Glue.. That's my order of preference. Extend contains wood flour (very fine sawdust) to increase open time, thermal resistance, and improve creep performance... Which is worried about far too much in luthiery. The use of wood flour is a neat trick in formulation since PVA relies on proximity to form bonds, the microscopic particles of wood effectively increase the bond surface area. It's my go-to for all guitar gluing operations.

Original works fine, but I prefer the benefits of Extend.

Titebond II, III, and polyurethanes have no place in guitar construction. Stick to using these for birdhouses, outdoor furniture, and cutting boards. Unless you have no other choice: leave polyurethane alone. If you insist on a reactive synthetic adhesive, you're almost always better off with epoxy.

The only disadvantage to using Hot Hide Glue is convenience. It can otherwise go toe to toe with any modern wood glue.

Titebond original with no problems. I use compression truss rods and I really have to crank them for my long scale bouzouki's, so theres a lot of end to end compression on the neck. No problems, ever.

I picked up fresh bottles of TB1 and fish glue this morning. I have HHG as well, but don't feel confident using it for a 9 piece lamination. I'll use the TB for the neck tonight or tomorrow morning, depending on how much snow there is to shovel. Thanks to one and all for the much appreciated advice!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I'm not the voice of extensive experience but used TB1 for glueing a 9 piece maple and rosewood neck. Had problems with the wood twisting which I assume is the maple reacting to the moisture. Took a few months to stabilize. Plan on using epoxy or UF glue on neck no.2.


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We make and sell a lot of laminated necks, one thing we discovered is that its necessary to have a glue up clamping fixture that prevents warps/twist from occurring. We use an array of bench vises that are aligned and squared up, then add "F" or "C" clamps along the edges --- also makes the lay up much easier. I use Titebond Original and follow the manufacture's recommendations, we do not wait for weeks to use the blanks, that has never been necessary.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

That's an effective looking set up, Ken. I've got one vice on my bench, but it is flush mounted. I have a pair of old screw to the bench type vices that will work, along with dozens of bar and f clamps.
I'll drill a reference hole through all the lams at each end, and put a piece of wire hanger in it for alignment.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

That's a slick set-up Ken!

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Hugh, can I ask what is the objection to a polyurethane glue, specifically as a neck laminating adhesive?

It is admittedly horrible stuff to work with if it gets on your hands, but why would one not use it in a situation where it is never going to be required to be repaired, and where one would look for moisture resistance, (like in steaming off a neck ?)

I know you said that epoxy is preferable but why is epoxy preferable?

I would ask high the same question. I use PU for laminating necks most of the time. The only downside is the foamy mess but all those surfaces get planed anyway. Clean your hands with alcohol after gluedup and you won't stain your skin brown. I can't imagine that a well prepared and clamped PU joint is anything but bullet proof. And, is it not more heat resistant than epoxy?

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I did three neck lams this weekend. One fish glue, one TB1, and one polyurethane. The fish and TB will stay in the clamps for 3-4 days, the poly got about 8 hrs. I'll bet all three will be just fine, at least until I start carving them! Thanks for all the advice, folks. Much appreciated!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Okay Alex, come back here in 50 years to report back on those three. I'm putting a reminder on my calendar to check back.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.