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My next guitar will be a red spruce/oak ladder braced instrument with a Gibson J-185 body size and shape. I have seen some pretty fantastic oak instruments on the internet but was having trouble finding something that I liked. John Hall turned me on to a local-to-him wood supplier, and it turns out he is the guy that supplied Martin for the 100 oak Arts and Crafts guitars from a few years ago. I went to see him and here is what I came up with:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/ ... 776959267/

The man I went to see was Sam Tallorica near Reading PA. He has a large yard full of mostly oak - oak of all types and origins, most of it in large sizes and of rare varieties. He has a 9 foot wide bandsaw mill that is pretty amazing:

http://www.talaricohardwoods.com/imports.htm

The back and sides are Scottish Oak, quercus patreae, a white oak. He likes this species from Scotland because it grows slowly and the soil has few minerals to discolor the wood. These logs are BIG, up to 60 inches. He had a photo of this log, and the reason it was taken down is because a large section in the center near the ground had rotted out, but there was still a bunch of wood left even at ground level! Only rarely does a log yield this kind of figure, and to get it to show the wood must be almost perfectly quartered. Most people are after the straight and tight grain that these logs produce - flooring, panelling and veneer - and to get that he will rift saw the wood.

The big piece is for the neck. I wanted an oak neck for the look but I expressed my concern that the neck would be too heavy. Sam said he had just the thing for me. Real old growth, tight grained Spessart oak. He explained that the very close grained woods have more air in them than the faster growing woods, and are therefore lighter per cubic foot - can anyone confirm this? Well this 3 board foot piece clocks in at 36 lbs/ft3, where white oak is normally somewhere in the 45-50 lb/ft3 range, and the mahogany that is usually used is in the 40 lb/ft2 range - so lighter it is. Check the 240 grain lines in 7 inches - more than 30 per inch - and further check the consistency of the growth. The piece I have has some of the heart in it and about 1/2 of sap wood, so this tree was less than 20" across at 240+ years. This is a pretty spectacular piece of wood.

So what is Spessart Oak? This is a large forest in Bavaria bordering France (Snow White is reported to have lived there with 7 little guys) that has a lot of oak and beech, and he told me about the area where this wood came from. Part of the Spessart Forest was a hunting ground for nobility and bishops 400 years ago. The oak that came out of these woods was of very high quality, but they did not want to cut it all down, so they decided to manage it. They would clear cut a small area (Sam said a hectare which is 2-1/2 acres(?)), then replant these quercus petreae on a grid very close to each other. Every couple of years they would pull out the trees that did not promise to be the very best, until the right number was left for the trees to mature properly. At this point they would plant Beech trees in the open spaces because they could grow in shady areas under the oaks, meanwhile, the Beeches would shade the trunks of the oaks so the sun would not encourage a branch on the trunk which would spoil the lumber.

Since then they have harvested only a sustainable amount of wood every year, and continued replanting. He is on his way to Germany in February for the next auction - which happens a couple of times a year. He has the logs cut in Germany and stacked for 2 years to get the initial moisture out of them. Then he ships them here, kiln dries them, then he won’t sell them for another couple of years. Nice and dry and extremely stable (and expensive).

I wanted 16 quarter wood to get a 1 piece neck out of, but all he had was 8 quarter, so I got twice the length and will glue a center seam up.

I am also showing the nice piece of red spruce I picked up for the top.

Another great day

Ed

Ed: Had a quick look at your Flicker pages and they look very interesting. Hope you will leave it up so folks can have a closer look. I think John Arnold has done some work with oak so no doubt he will have a look and comment......we hope.
Thanks
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

John Arnold has indeed built with oak. I've seen and heard one of his oak guitars and it is very nice, to say the least. I have a really nice piece of white oak that I'll be using for 1 or 2 b/s sets when I get to it.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Oak is one of my favorites. Aside from the fact that I like the way it looks, it tends to make a really nice sounding instrument. I just wish I could get more of the customers to agree.

I found some nice figure in a piece of bar counter.

Hello Ed,

I was born, raised and am now again living in Lohr am Main, the offical Snow White City, in the Spessart Mountains, Franconia, north Bavaria (sorry....no border with France...). When I look outside my windows I see exactly this Spessart forrest, and I own part of my living here at this company....:

http://www.mehling-wiesmann.de/index.ph ... e/?lang=en

So, what i wanna say is...the story you got told is absolutly true. Spessart oak is something very unique and has very less to do what woodworker would normlay expect from an oak. And yes, it is log buying season

Cheers, Alex

Ditto on the kudos for oak. I did one a year ago and the customer loved it. The only way I can describe the sound is big and bright. In a very good way.

Steve

Very nice Oak! I have a few sets cut and put aside and I'm looking forward to using it.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Alex

Thanks for the website - may family is from Flotzheim, a very small town between Stuttgart and Nuremburg, maybe 50-60 miles from you. In the 1660's my ancestor, his father and his grandfather built and carved all of the pews and rail in the town church out of - you guessed it - oak.

I look forward to building this net one - and if anyone has advice for a first-time ladder brace builder, please chime in:

Brace number, size, and location
Flat or domed top
Neck geometry to get it all right

Thanks to all

Ed

If you are interested, white oak fumes nicely. Think arts and crafts quartersawn oak furniture. Darkens the wood. Many shades can be accomplished from a honey color to almost black depending on the time the oak is being fumed. A nice way to "stain" the wood since the fuming goes through the wood instead of just on the surface. The process is easy, but you need to be careful. I normally do it for furniture during the summer months when the heat of the day can cause the ammonia to fume. Set up outdoors with a PVC frame and plastic sheeting. The fumes can get to you and can cause problems. I've never done it inside for that reason. I have never tried it on a set of backs and sides, only for furniture I have made through the years. Guess I will have to get things set up in 2015 and try an set or two.

I can't say enough about oak I love it. I built an oak parlor guitar as part of an OLF challenge that has since generated a buzz and a couple orders have come in. Now I just need to finish my workshop to start building again! I've been stacking up on Red Spruce too because I think it will make a great compliment to oak guitars and living in the Eastern U.S. I can build a true local woods guitar. That's part of the marketing

BTW oak for a neck is not too heavy, in fact it feels rather light. The stuff I used was approximately 100 years old so it probably came from some pretty big trees. Also it is VERY porous so maybe there is something to be said about the air argument. That's the one thing that is not so fun about oak is filling it. But then again it probably would look good unfilled too.

There is a market out there for oak guitars but it's not traditional so it's a tough sell. None the less go for it you will love it and it's a pleasure to work with as well.

Hi Ed,

Good luck with your guitar!

I just finished my first oak/adi guitar and couldn't be happier. Great looking and sounding. I will post pictures/sound clips at some point.

As far as I can tell there really is no downside to oak.

Thanks all

The encouragement is great, and since I am building for myself, I don't have to find a customer.

Ed

My last guitar was a small bodied oak with yellow cedar. It's my best sounding yet. The pieces of oak I have are so big that I did a one piece back and it's still quarter sawn across whole width.

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

Hey Joe and Brad. I'd love to see some pics

I wasn't planning on using some of my stashed White Oak this early, but its been something that has been nagging at me. So, this morning, inspired by this thread, I pulled out a set and I'm getting it ready!

I'm just at the point of making up a center strip for the back. Its not glued in yet, but tomorrow probably.

_________________
Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/