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The blue guitars linked in this thread make a perfect example of what I mean by keeping the grain visible Opaque ones look cheap, translucent ones look high end.

Personally, I'd only go blue on the top. And try to avoid using any black. Not feminine. Unless your client specifically requests it.

How about red gum for the back/sides? This is the only source I know of for it http://www.superiortonewood.com/guitar/

Alternatively, Madagascar rosewood would be striking, but I think the colors could work.

Spalted maple would be good too, but only if you're careful to keep the blue very light. And it's not the most tonally inspiring wood... but for a bass, softness can be a good thing.

Or spalted tamarind. Also thunky, but can have some beautiful blue-gray tones in it. I have this set for sale, which also has a nice heart shape in it Bought from RC a couple years ago, and I still love the look, but the tap tone just doesn't cut it for my building style.

Chris Verhoeven who used to be around here made a few incredible blue topped guitars. http://www.muxguitars.com/contentmanagerlowres.html

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I was at an Arlo Guthrie concert recently. One of the guitars he played was a solid blue 12-string with the soundhole on the bass side of the upper bout.

I would make a wager if Bonnie Raitt or Joni Mitchell asked any one of you to make them a powder blue guitar your answer would be quite different...


Just saying.....

Bob

Not sure if the question here is if the builder our friend Pat wants to take this one on or if the hidden question might be is this yet another request for some odd-ball fascination levied at one of us because somehow we give the impression that all things are possible...

That aside if anyone did take this one on as a commission when considering the one-off nature of building a Mary Kay pink Caddy... and how immediately self-limited any residual market for the thing may be (if the client balks and the deal goes south, etc. how salable would this instrument be to anyone else) sounds like it's time for some boilerplate and a pretty comprehensive sales agreement with deposit and IMO progress payments as well.

It also sounds like a project that could be a lot of fun and I agree with Dennis that there are lots of possible wood combinations that could be very cool with a powder blue top. Lightly colored woods, dark woods, silvers, etc again lots of possibilities.

The advice on the Blue Guitar exhibit is excellent advice too for inspiration (lots of it!!) and I remember some of those guys who were involved in the project back at the "Blue Guitar" in San Diego - really great folks and Lowden dealers too back in the day.

I can't help but wonder though if an acoustic bass is not unlike a 12 string in the sense that folks who have never had a 12 often want one and folks who do have a 12 often want to sell it.... Another reason to get the money up front...

For me I would not build this guitar but for other reasons than what's been mentioned here such as the personal aversion to painting perhaps a master grade top, tell that to Charles Fox.... with the Ergo coming to mind.

What would be more on my mind is that I have never built an acoustic bass prior. I don't have my bracing worked out, never did any mules to experiment with etc. Combine this with the clear expectation that any luthier built instrument should be pretty outstanding in any and all respects (personal belief...) I would not want to be experimenting with a paying client.

Rarely is it said on these forums what some of the most common ways luthiers seem to hurt themselves are but one of the most common ways we tend to hurt ourselves in the business sense is attempting to be all things to all folks. Some may see an instrument as a woodworking project and not a fine musical instrument with specific requirements and expectations why something costing 10 - 20 times what a painted one from China might cost SHOULD out perform the import in all respects (except of course price..).

So for me I would decline for a lack of personal experience (and success) with acoustic basses. I also might decline if I had the access to do my own estimation of the client, their intent, their seriousness, and their ability to fund such an instrument from beginning to end. I also would be interested in if the client has an acoustic bass now and what they like about it, what they hate about it, etc. Seems like a pretty important road map to deciding if expectations are both realistic and informed. Scale length you say - what do they use now if anything, etc.

But as for painting fine wood - bring it on man I'll paint anything including you guys if you stood still long enough....

Knowing as I do from having been married before that I can be long-winded.... to be more clear here I remain unconvinced that the client is real including the expectations on them for funding, total price, etc. as well as if this is a tool for a serious musician or a novelty request because they just finished binge watching Orange is the new black and ran out of things to do. Not trying to belittle, far from it... just know all too well from personal experience that lots of folks want lots of things but when it comes time for the reality of the details as to form, function, expectations, associated costs, opportunity costs, etc. most of these requests often become fleeting....

So for me it's not yet a question of if I want to paint an acoustic bass powder blue but it is very much a question of is this my skill set and do I have experience, is the client real including some less than relaxed business terms considering the one-off nature of the project and if the client really understands the value and limitations of acoustic basses.

Don't forget the electronics - pretty important in acoustic basses in practice although rather strange to have to consider in concept... We see acoustic basses on occasion but rarely are they a prized tool and are instead something that needs fixin and weighs too much to have navigated our two flights of stairs easily..... No worries, we have a portable defibrillator...

[quote="Hesh" because they just finished binge watching Orange is the new black and ran out of things to do. [/quote]

I can assure you the client is real and has already sent a substantial deposit. If I just wanted to throw this out as an idea on the forum, I would have said so. There are no hidden questions. I have no motivation or desire to be anything but straightforward with what I say or ask on this forum.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

You took my reply in a manner that it was never intended - personally. Nor was your judgement specifically addressed, Pat.

Instead I discussed the phenomena that often it's the case that small builders, inexperienced builders too (not you....) are approached for one-off commissions. I most certainly was back in the day with 9 string requests, double necks, anything and everything that I never wanted to get any on me with....

I also attempted to "qualify" the request since after all you are asking for our thoughts so these respective thoughts are likely to as a result come from us, me, etc. and in a manner that we wish to communicate for better or worse. That's what discussion forums are for - right?

In qualifying any request what the request is for is pretty basic and acoustic basses are not exactly being offered here in the states as Black Friday door busters with anticipated high demand....

More specifically my reply is from the perspective of a "generic" request for something not all that common and as requested highly unlikely to be something that could be resold if the deal goes south. As such I believe that much of what I spoke about was offering some protections to you out of concern for you as well.

Please don't take any of this personally as it was never intended that way. Instead I'm much more into sorting out what's real and what's not before I make any effort to attempt to honor a request. It simply seems to me that a one-off instrument painted for a personal preference and an acoustic bass as well which are not all that popular at least initially represented a "danger Will Robinson" situation in terms of risk for the builder.

You asked if we would do this - I answered with a pretty good view of my own thought processes (scary I agree...) what would be on my mind. It was not specifically directed at you including the comment about being all things to all folks. These are concerns that I have when considering the deal as described. Sorry if my observations seemed to be an attack on you personally, Pat. They are most certainly not and my hope is that if you decide to do the deal that it all goes perfectly for you.

As I mentioned there are a number of reasons why I would decline personally myself and that I believe is what you asked.

OK, I see where you were coming from Hesh. Sorry to be over sensitive.

Although I don't want to get side-tracked, the questions you raise with respect to odd-ball, one of type commissions are interesting. I've had several of these in the past couple of years including an 8 string, a large acoustic bass (for which I followed the plans by Tim Olsen), and a baritone classical. My next build is going to be a fan-fret guitar aimed at being tuned in 5ths or at least New Standard Tuning if I can't get all the way to B4 with a 7 gauge string. I hadn't built any of these prior to the commission and I made that very clear to the clients up front. They were OK with that and, so far at least, have not been disappointed in the results. Should I be doing this? I don't see a problem if I am up-front with my clients about my experience level and I enjoy the challenge as long as it's for a "real" instrument. With respect to protecting myself in the event that someone changes their mind it's true that perhaps the risk is higher with an oddball guitar and I should be taking a larger than normal up-front deposit. Others have already suggested that I get cash up front for this one. I'll need to give that some thought.

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Thanks Pat, much appreciated.

I tend to get off in my own head and want to share some of the stuff that I have learned, at times the hard way... in an effort to help someone, somewhere, sometime.

Truth be told it's my belief that everyone should do exactly as they wish whenever they wish too. That's always my personal plan as well. I was too young to be at Woodstock but many of my values seem to have arrested development in the Woodstock era.... We need an emoticon that is smoking a joint....

Forums are useful, at times... for input but ultimately we all have to approach our markets and what we do as we see fit and for what ever reasons are important to us.

I'm personally not comfortable building something that I have no experience with and then selling it. But hey that's me and it's likely that some of you guys who do push the personal envelope so-to-speak will develop as Luthiers faster than I will from the added experiences. A good thing if it works for you! I'm also risk adverse personally and had that beat into me daily for decades in corporate America....

Admittedly my approach (and language...) can be a bit abrasive at times and my apologies for this too - it's the only way I know how to be and remain true to myself (and maybe I have latent Rick Turner tendencies too...(said with great respect and personal regard for Rick!)). <===== Please note nested loop.... Day in and day out we see and have to repair many of the instruments that at times may have even graced the centerfold on this very fine forum. One cannot help but form opinions, be defensive on behalf of an unhappy client who feels like they may have been ripped off, etc.

I also have a very strong personal belief from experience too that Luthiers are often not the best business people - an understatement and I'll add who the heck is anyway? We are asked to do things that very few can do and do them on time and under budget with exceptional results. Experience tells me that not everyone can be pleased all of the time and that the savvy Luthier will not attempt to be all things to all folks instead focusing on core competencies and what makes sense financially as well and is fun to do too.

So when I interact with the client who may be a shredder (nothing against shredders, some of my best, well you know...) and wants their SG set-up and intonated to play in C..... and is complaining that the last repair shop did not get the intonation correct when it's possible that for C the bridge needs to be removed, plugged, and repositioned I get leery of the request AND the client.... Or the vintage Hummingbird that the bridge started lifting and a chain store did not know their skill set limitations and attempted the repair resulting in the bridge not only lifting further but rolling up the top toward the sound hole too like a sardine can it pains me that someone did not know their limitations and as a result very nearly destroyed a family heirloom. True story too.

Guess it's showing more these days than in the past. Time for me to perhaps be more sensitive as to how I sound to others.

Thanks for the understanding Pat!

Its just a color thing. Everything under the hood can still be top notch. I totally agree that a spalted maple set is the way to go. Do it. U might get ocular headaches doing it. But it's still gonna sound awesome

My mentor has built quite a few acoustic basses. They sound great. Granted they are not for everyone. But they do sound great, when well built.
On to colored tops. I saw a beautiful black faced jumbo j90 moonstone come into the shop for a battery change. Master adi top ( black dye in ktm9) looked and sounded top notch.

"I see a blue top and I want it painted black.
I start to post, and have a logorrheattack."

Sorry Hesh, I couldn't resist.

Yeah I deserve that I'm sure...

On that note and not to high-jack the thread but it's always been interesting to me what some of the "strong" preferences are with some of you guys.... For example when I first did a sunburst the OLF got even nasty with some of the comments with one in particular that I remember in which another member seriously said that I ruined a nice Adi top by bursting it.... It took me back for a couple of reasons with the first one being that if I personally don't like someone else's design eye I remember the old if I can't say something nice thing and stifle myself over in the corner. It's personal taste and not something that I see an entitlement to rain on someone else's parade over unless, of course we are talking about an Ov*tion.... Then when I did the first Black Tiger there were some converts and they said so.

But what surprised me the most was the aversion by many on this forum to the concept of painting wood. Go figure... I appreciate a nicely silked, perfectly quartered top as much as the next guy but in no way does this tell me that paint is out of the question....

I was never a wood worker and as such am not all that well versed in how a wood worker views his/her world and materials. For me it was always about the guitars, cool guitars, great playing and sounding guitars, etc. and working with wood including painting it at times was simply necessary to get to the cool guitars. It never occurred to me that bursting a top would "ruin" anything nor in reality does it.

Different strokes and that's why I'm far less interested in the color that a commission may want and far more interested in business terms and the qualification process and of course the merit that the project represents for the Luthier too.

Things have lightened up considerably these days on the OLF and it's been a while since someone had a coronary over someone else's painted top (or back and sides) guitar. Good to see.

[quote=

"I see a blue top and I want it painted black.
I start to post, and have a logorrheattack."

Sorry Hesh, I couldn't resist.[/quote]

Yeah I deserve that I'm sure...

when I first did a sunburst the OLF got even nasty with some of the comments with one in particular that I remember in which another member seriously said that I ruined a nice Adi top by bursting it. Then when I did the first Black Tiger there were some converts and they said so.

But what surprised me the most was the aversion by many on this forum to the concept of painting wood. Go figure... I appreciate a nicely silked, perfectly quartered top as much as the next guy but in no way does this tell me that paint is out of the question....


Different strokes and that's why I'm far less interested in the color that a commission may want and far more interested in business terms and the qualification process and of course the merit that the project represents for the Luthier too.

Things have lightened up considerably these days on the OLF and it's been a while since someone had a coronary over someone else's painted top (or back and sides) guitar. Good to see.[/quote]

Thanks Hesh. I knew you could take a joke. I've had to take a few myself. As for opaque colors (we don't want to say "paint") --why not? Traditionally, black guitars and dark sunbursts have been an excuse to use top-sets with visual flaws. Lucky for the builder, that the wood didn't go in the trash heap, and lucky for the customer that a superior guitar found a home.

I would argue for using wood with visual "issues" for an opaque top.

The Chinery collection has been mentioned. It leapt to mind when I read this post. Danny Ferrington also sprang. I'm guessing that he wouldn't hesitate to build a blue-topped guitar, and his client list is legendary.

Get the other appointments right, execute the details, and a powder blue topped acoustic bass will be a feather in your cap.

Eric no problem and thanks to you too!

After the first burst (and a few people mentioning that a burst has to be a cover-up of a flaw....) I started taking pictures of my tops just prior to finishing.... But I resented it and still wondered why the aversion to bursts or paint.... on a guitar top. After all my all time favorite guitar in human history, 37 Gibby L-OO was painted either black or bursted....

But the comments that I MUST be hiding something under that paint continued.... It was like Bengazi I tell ya..... A couple years of investigations, millions spent, and no defects found under my paint....

So as a tribute to the narrow.... who could not fathom that some folks like a little color in their guitars (and perhaps in our lives too....) and with the help of one of the brightest folks that I have ever known I have coined a new term for a burst on an acoustic guitar.

"Burstgazi..." to me describes a personal preference AND reverence for iconic guitar tradition.... that is open to bursting or painting if it contributes to the overall design concept and vibe.

I'm sitting in my office off my home shop at the moment and there are other, f*ctory guitars as well as some of my personal favs hanging all around me at present - nearly half of the instruments here (that's 6 out of 12....) are black. My car is black and I'll stop there....

Anyone who has painted cars will also tell you that black may be good at covering up flaws but it's terrible at covering up surface irregularities... So I never got it, this aversion to painting a guitar be it a burstgazi...., black, or blue.... and in time I grew to not care what others thought about my personal choices for my creations.

OTOH it was the "encouragement" offered by many on the OLF back in the day that outweighed the naysayers who never quite understood that personal preferences are just that.... personal AND preferences and that everyone is entitled to them.