Official Luthiers Forum!

A friend of mine has had her shoulder dislocated for the gazillionth time. Doctor says there's nothing left to be done and if it happens again, she needs to get it fused or amputated. She said only if they can fuse it in a position such that she can still play.

If I were going to make her a guitar, any advice? Obviously, an arm bevel and a Manzer wedge. Has anyone experimented with an asymmetrical lower bout, smaller on the bass side?

Other ideas? I already suggested mandolin.

Thanks,
Mike

_________________
Mike Lindstrom

Mike,
So sorry for your friend. That sounds terrible!

You've probably already done so, but searching the web for "ergonomic acoustic guitar" turns up all kinds of interesting stuff. I know I've seen a discussion of exactly what you are describing and I think it was here on the OLF. Maybe not. The guitar I'm thinking of had a wedge and an arm bevel, as well as an asymmetrical lower bout and I remember thinking it was a pretty slick idea. Wish I had a link for you, but it's here (or out there) somewhere.

Good luck to you and your friend,

_________________
George :-)

Yeah, the ergonomic thread I think I remember from here also included a funky neck angle and maybe a rotated neck.

My friend's issue is her right shoulder, so the issues would be on the strumming end.

Mike

_________________
Mike Lindstrom

What kind of guitar is she playing now. I am making a guitar for a friend who was complaining about back and shoulder pain while playing. He owns a Martin Dreadnought. While seated and playing his strumming arm was out at a horrible angle. He spent three days playing on my 00 size guitar with an arm bevel and asked me to make him one.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

A gentleman traded me his Martin dreadnaught for a size 1 guitar because of shoulder issues. It was a 12 fret neck, but with the longer scale. Adding an arm bevel and a wedge body might be an interesting option.

Yes, getting her a smaller body is part of the plan. Right now she can't play at all, so she can't test drive anything I've got around, but we'll certainly do that before we get started.

How deep do you make your arm bevels? Do folks think the bevel and a wedge are redundant?

Thanks,
Mike

_________________
Mike Lindstrom

If she's facing the possibility of losing her arm I don't think anything is redundant.

_________________
George :-)

If the issues are that significant, your friend needs to switch to the classical playing position and move to a smaller body guitar. She also might look at getting something like the "A-frame" or "Neck-Up" products that position the guitar on the left knee without needing a foot stool for the left foot. That position is infinitely more ergonomic (the right shoulder will be close to the body rather than lifted in an outward position like it normally is) than the standard acoustic guitar position and will make both the bevel and wedge fairly obsolete.

That is a sad state. I had a lot of trouble with my left hand and arm, it took 2 years after operations for me to be able to play some again.
Narrow bodies for sure (some Larsons were as narrow as 2-1/4"). Have her learn how to fingerpick. The arm need not move at all...

I didn't know about those things. Very cool idea for them that need it. I will pass them along to her. Thanks!

_________________
Mike Lindstrom

This thread resonates with me. I had shoulder surgery 45 years ago for repeated dislocation, and while the shoulder never dislocated after that, the osteoarthritis has progressed to the point that playing any guitar more that 30 minutes is agony. Same thing with using a plane, hand sanding, and even scraping. The worst thing is the pain interferes with my sleep. I am planning shoulder replacement surgery early 2015, after my return to Canada -- already had the consult with the surgeon. After that, I'll be 6 weeks in a sling, and 6 months with restricted lifting. Recovery may delay getting my workshop back up and running, but if I can plane, play guitar and sleep through the night after that, I'll be very happy.

+1 Tim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a lot of issues with my shoulder/arms (Bulging disk in neck that affects my left arm, and currently a "frozen" shoulder in my right). I have a long torso, and actually find larger instruments more comfortable as they sit in my lap better. I have Larson Brothers inspired instruments, that are 17-17.25" at lower bout, but have narrow waist and are thin (OM thickness, under 4"). I actually find these guitars to be the most comfortable for me to play.

What size guitar does she find most comfortable at this moment? maybe take that, and modify design from there?

Glenn

Just scanning quickly, so maybe I am repeating.

Les Paul crushed his elbow in a car accident and had it set at the playing angle. He did OK.

A classical guitarist named Galbreath (spelling?) has the guitar set up like a cello, which results in his wrists not being bent much. (He is the son of the famous industrial engineer - cheaper by the dozen.)

Really, the doctor might do a good job setting her arm at a decent position, but I think it might be best to wait and see the result before deciding on a design.

I had the same problem My shoulder would dislocate if I raised it up. Best advice I can give you is find another doctor. I had my should operated on twice, it now works fine and no pain.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

+1 for Toonces' comment on classical position and small body, and +1 on John Hall's as well. There is a lot of variation of skills and approaches in the ortho world.

For an already stressed body, the use of a support to elevate the guitar body on the left leg rather than playing with an elevated foot support is important.
A number of people develop back problems from the regular classical position. Some players adopt the old flamenco posture as an alternative - look for Scott Tenant videos to see an example. This probably puts more rotation on the right shoulder, though, so the classical position with a support for the guitar may be better, and play with the guitar in as upright a position as possible.

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Build thin.
I had fracture dislocation right shoulder 2008. Biggest probem was betting my arm away from my body.
Built this dread 2" but wish I had thought of wedge shaped body with thinner bout on bass (armpit) side to allow easier fit.
Fortunately I have excellent range of motion now.
This is still my "go to" casual play at home guitar.

_________________
Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

I too am compelled to answer this post. Like Tim, I had surgery several years ago on both shoulders and came out smiling. My problem is also the resulting arthritis. Planing by hand and sanding are killers for me. Like Blues Creek though I would recommend another opinion. For years they shot me up with cortisone which masked the pain while the shoulders became more and more damaged. One day I met a real doctor and he changed all that. Within 3 months I had my first surgery( repairing three tendons, two snapped and the remaining 1 split)and although painful, it changed my life. Before that I could not raise my arms above shoulder level.
Look for a doctor who cares!

Thanks for all the ideas and well wishes. I will pass them all on to her. Hopefully she'll be fine and everything will hold tight. She's wanted a guitar for some time, but we hadn't settled on anything. It just occurred to me that an ergo guitar could help protect her problems from progressing. Obvious, I know, but I was just thinking about what we might do after the surgery if it comes to that.

Thanks again.

Mike

_________________
Mike Lindstrom