Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm usually a stickler to get my instruments setup as perfectly as possible. I have this nice little Seagull guitar, but the B string is 5 cents sharp while the A and D strings are 10 cents flat. I don't HEAR any problems jumping out at me too badly (I notice minor problems here and there, but it doesn't bother me much considering the fact that its only a $400 beater guitar). Im wondering how far off you guys will typically let your intonation go. I COULD fix the intonation, but I REALLY dont feel like it What tolerance do you guys try to hit with your intonation?

If I was playing all below the 12th fret I wouldn't worry about it.
Above the 12th fret I would get cranky and fix it.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

My research suggests that the human ear has difficulty detecting any fault in intonation within 2-3 cents or less within the acoustic range of a guitar. This concept is referred to as JND, aka "Just Noticeable Difference."

http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/acoustics/pitch.htm

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Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

I'd find that pretty painful.

In absolute terms, the error is not enormous. For example, an equal temperament third is 14 cents sharp of a Just temperament 3rd and many of us manage to live with that. BUT, if you play a 10th (octave third) across the 5th and 2nd string (pretty common and much of what the L/Mc song "Blackbird" is all about) you have the 14 cents of Equal temperament error and 15 cents of intonation error summing to close to 30 cents from Just. That's a long way!

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

A related question might be "How perfect can you get intonation?. That is what i'd like the answer to.

You ARE testing this thing in standard tuning with NEW strings, I hope. . .

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Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

Are you talking about at the 12th fret?

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Indeed. Flat and sharp where and compared to what. Tuner used?

Yeah, old strings really screw up intonation.

2-3 cents is probably inaudible to some people, but not people that have been playing for a while (or were born with golden ears). I shoot for +/- 1 cent or better in new instruments, but for a Seagull, I guess that's a ethical and cost/benefit type decision.

I do happen to be using old strings, didn't realize that would affect the intonation! I was planning on doing the setup with the old strings then changing them after I was done. Ill throw on a new set how she plays

That's my indicator that I use to tell me it's time to change strings - when the intonation starts getting wonky. I play quite a bit so it's usually every 3 to 4 weeks.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Ran into a man in the pawn shop yesterday. Heard him playing a few licks went to check it out. We got to talking and his player is an F hole with a moveable bridge. Told me he always took it to a tech to string it because they could get the intonation right. Now this was an older man who could hit some pretty good licks. Told him how I set up my moveable bridges. Said he'd give it a try.