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@wbergman - I saw an article about his process with pictures, so I know exactly what you're talking about. Truth to tell, I was a bit intimidated by it so I never even considered trying it, but I have a couple more years of woodworking and machine-using under my belt now, so I'll have to find that article. It was slick once it was all set up.

@Jim - very nice jig you made for yourself. Similar process to the Simpson jig but I think the (apparently) aluminum routing surface would be more exact and might solve my problem. Did you make that tenon template?

Thanks everyone!

I did make the tenon template, that jig is coming up on 20 yrs old. It's served it's purpose well!

@Ben - that's really beautiful.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

One thing to remember is that if you use a tapered heel and the corresponding mating surface of the guitar is slightly convex as it is in many designs (including my own), the heel will not mate perfectly even if cut perfectly on the jig.

It took me a while to figure that out thinking it was my jig's fault.

It will require some flossing. Undercutting all but the rim of the mating surface makes it go faster.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

This is true and at my stage of building, I've made an attempt to flatten the upper bout so I don't have to worry about it. But some day I'd like to use a convex upper bout because I think they look better. Thanks, Terence.

My method won't do you much good Beth... I use the CNC for both the M and the T...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

thanks Don:)

Hi Beth
My approach to the neck joint is a lot like others' who have replied but I also like to keep
things as simple as possible. For me the neck to body angle is always around one and one half
degree to two degrees. I final fit with a good floss anyhow so I just use one and a half degree as standard. To the mitre saw, measure to body joint plus three quarter inch for tenon and cut at
one and a half degree. Then I use a jig like this and rout away.The routing jig has the 1 1/2 degree built right in, no need to fuss with finding angles. Then another jig to rout the body.

Ken

I'm pleasently surprised to see someone else think this and say it. I too see no need for a mortise and tenon for a bolt-on neck. I too use a simple butt joint and put a little glue on the fretboard extension on the top. I see where a dovetail is useful for a glued-on neck to get enough glue surface area and avoid end grain. But once one goes to a bolt-on neck, why is a chuck of wood going into the neck block helpful? A M&T appears to be an unneeded complication to me. Its much faster and easier to eliminate it. You'll use less neck wood too. I can do a neck with a 28" long neck blank instead of 35" or 37" which opens up more possiblities for use of wood - and saves money too.

I put a piece of maple in the heel of my mahogany necks so that the threaded inserts go into side grain of a very hard wood. While inserts in mahogany end grain will work, the side grain maple is several times stronger. They would take a lot of force to pull out.

So Beth, do think it over. Why continue with M&T at all?

This happened to me once. My solution was simple and dead on.

Don't put the inserts in the neck untill after the body is built and leave the neck heel square. Then put the neck in place against the body but scoot it over an inch of so so that you can see the two bolt holes coming out of the body against the neck heel. Make a mark on the side of the neck heel at the center of each existing bolt hole. Now take the neck and transfer the marks from the side of the heel across the back (mating side) to the center line of the heel. The intersection of the heel's centerline to the marks transferred from the side is the exact location of the center of the bolt holes in the body and the exact location of the center of the two inserts.

Make sure your drill press drills the insert holes perpendictular to the face of the neck heel so that they will be inline with the bolt holes in the body neck block.

It's even easier to put the neck in place and poke a pencil up through the holes in the neck block...

AHA! So that's why you had a pencil poking through that hole I thought was a dowel. I thought you were just trying to trick me. What a guy:0)


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Mwa hua ha ha ha!

I do something similar only I use the same brad point bit that I used to drill the holes with. The brad point leaves a nice centered mark

Doh! Good un...

I've been using the brad point bit that I drill the inserts with and popping it through the holes to register onto the heel.
As I read these posts and see I'm doing things the same as many of you. I suspect the mismatch is happening as I drill the holes (not fully square) or as I screw the inserts in (tilting a bit). I have a bench top drill press so can't use it to drill the insert holes. I will try the suggestion to thread an insert hole into a block of "crap wood" then hold that up to the insert holes to help straighten my approach.
Thanks everyone...lots of great information!!!!

It definitely helped me. The inserts can have a tendency to wander if unguided. Took a lot of sweArs for me to figure that out.

Actually you can with a bit of difficulty... If you mount the drill so the chuck is over the edge of the bench, you can swing the table out of the way and clamp a square section length of wood to it, hanging over the edge. You can then clamp the neck, upright, to that, using a spirit level to level it. Its quite a hassle, but you get better results than using a hand drill.

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Peter, I assume you have a floor model that you use for this. Do you have a picture of your insert-hole-drilling setup?

Beth,

I use the Pat Foster cheek-cutting jig, something I cooked up last year. It's really just a two-way crosscut sled and needs a few refinements, but works quite well.



It has a 1/2" Baltic birch base with a miter slot rail with near-zero slop; the fence is two thicknesses of the BB perpendicular to the miter slot.

The stop on the left of the picture must be absolutely perpendicular to the fence to get the cheeks cut on the same plane. There is a sliding spacer barely visible at the top right, which regulates the neck angle, which I've only set once.

I cut one cheek, then make successive cuts sliding the neck to the right each time, to cut off the waste, then flip the neck blank to the other side of the fence and repeat. It takes a about a minute per side.

The only setup needed is the blade height, and the sides of the heel parallel and perpendicular to the freeboard surface. The neck comes out with the cheeks coplanar and at the angle I need, just over 1°.

Refinements will include a blade height gauge and a more accurately fixed end stop.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Nope I have a bench top drill, but removed the base and mounted it to the very edge of the bench with bolts so I'd get more room for stuff like this. Sorry the pictures aren't very clear with all the mess in the background and it is staged - if I was doing it for real, I'd use more and stronger clamps.

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

@Pat - thanks for that. I have a crap table saw, so I don't use it for anything but the roughest work (plus I'm a little afraid of it).

@Peter - exactly what I wanted to see. Thanks so much for posting that. I might rig mine similarly. I can't tell how you attached the post to your bench without the base on it?

I actually bought it second hand off ebay, and when I got it I saw the base was cracked, so I didn't really have any other options! On the flange at the bottom of the pillar are three holes for mounting it to the base, so I just bolted it down to my bench and its rock solid.

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars