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Yes in a criminal court the burden is on the government to prove that you are in violation of those laws... administrative is another matter altogether.

I remember reading somewhere that Brazilian Rosewood is actually not that good of a material. It's unstable, easily cracks, and not to mention expensive. It said that if it didn't have the mythical status no one would want a guitar out of Brazilian Rosewood.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

"I remember reading somewhere that Brazilian Rosewood is actually not that good of a material. It's unstable, easily cracks, and not to mention expensive. It said that if it didn't have the mythical status no one would want a guitar out of Brazilian Rosewood."


Is this meant serious or ironic?

Cheers, Alex

I'm guessing they were talking about stumpwood and/or in context of non-live back guitars. Good QS straight grain does still crack easily, but otherwise is ideal in every way for live-back guitars. Heavy but not too heavy, extremely low damping, dark color and wide variety of interesting grain figurings, smells wonderful. Not positive, but I assume it bends well when straight grained and hasn't been through half a century of drying. And according to the numbers on wood-database.com, its humidity movement is actually very low, which means you can brace at lower RH to lessen the cracking problems, and it won't poof up too much in higher humidity.

But actually, I'm most saddened by the loss of it as a bridge wood. Lowest density near-black wood there is, along with the low damping. I wonder if I could get paperwork on my stash from Sniggly, who got it from an old plywood factory. But do you have to pay twice, to get it documented as raw wood and after it's built into a guitar? Probably too expensive to bother.

Perhaps it's time to give black walnut a try as a bridge wood...

Don't know what lab you were using, but Brazilian is pretty much the easiest Dalbergia to separate from other species of this genus. When a small sample of shavings is extracted with water, the extract from virtually all other Dalbergia will fluoresce under black light -- D. nigra will not. Yes, it requires a sample, but this could be acquired with minimal, repairable damage to most BRW objects, and certainly much less that 1 cubic inch.

I know some feel that the US is heavy handed, but it IS a signatory to CITES, along with 179 other countries, and has a legal obligation to see that the Convention is adhered to when material is traded across its border. D. nigra has been on the CITES Appendix 1 list for years, so tight regulation of its commercial trade should not come as a surprise to anyone, least of all guitar makers. If you want to sell your BRW across an international border, you will need to jump through the hoops, and not just in the US. That's what happens when wood is illegally harvested in huge quantities to sell to instrument and furniture consumers, to the point that sustainable management of the species becomes virtually impossible. Appropriately documented material/objects will retain their commercial value -- undocumented material/objects will not. That's the whole point and the only way to kill illegal harvest.

Personally, I don't have a single piece of BRW and don't want any at any price.

I´d be interested too. AFAIK, Dalbergia species from Brazil are: (disclaimer: nerdy post, i´m no expert or botanist... just stuff i grabbed along)
______

a) Traditional and valuable timber producing trees:
D. Nigra (Brazilian RW); D. Cearensis (Kingwood); D. Spruceana (Amazon Rosewood); D. Decipularis (Brazilian Tulipwood)

b)Other species big enough to produce timber, but which i never saw in person:
D. Miscolobium (Jacaranda do Cerrado) ; D. Villosa ; D. Brasiliensis (Caviuna preta)

c)Species that i don´t know if are trees or shrubs or lianas:
D. Frutescens; D. Cuiabensis; D. Densiflora; D. ecastaphyllum (Coin Vine); D. foliolosa

Again, as far as i know, the only species that are present in the Mata Atlantica of the sates of Bahia, Espirito Santo and Rio de Janeiro (besides D. Nigra), are D. Decipularis and D.Foliolsa. Since Tulipwood is not confusable with BRW, within this short list the only candidate would be Dalbergia Foliosa, which i _think_ is a timber producing tree, but couldn´t confirm.
This article: http://link.springer.com/article/10.2307%2F2807701 would clear matters up, but i don´t have it.

OK, sorry for the off-topic.

A little more on topic, i´m with Dennis : my biggest nibble is with bridges. I have bought a little stash of ancient coffee table leg blanks, which can yield a fair number of bridge blanks. It´s nice stuff: old growth, seasoned, hard and resonant. I thought i could eventually sell some of it, as it´s too much for me. I guess i´ll keep it then.

all the best,
Miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

While we are rapidly heading toward "DNA barcoding" for identification of rosewoods, I don't think we're quite there yet. Nevertheless, that is likely where CITES enforcement is headed for the various species in Appendix 1. Development of DNA barcode libraries requires investment and time, although there are some private companies developing the technology for precisely this purpose, e.g., http://www.doublehelixtracking.com. While there are candidate DNA markers, particularly RAPDs that have already been used for population diversity and phylogeny studies, species identification is a different application of DNA technology. Meanwhile, the folks at Kew Gardens in the UK have published on the discovery of a unique neoflavanoid "Dalnigrin" that could be used for confirmation of D. nigra by chemical analysis: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.phytochem.2010.04.011 -- no doubt it would stand up in court even better than the florescence test I described earlier.

Brazilian?? No...that's Indian rosewood. Wink wink

I just finished my third Brazilian guitar. Count me in as a believer. I've used it for bridges for a long time and it's just wonderful there. I will follow this closely. I hope there will be some mods to the policy. If the musical industry raises enough fuss with their legislators it could make a difference. I know I'll write to mine.

(also to my supplier to see if they have any paperwork.)

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Well it does seem like it's easier for me to get african blackwood than brazilian rosewood. Lets hope it too doesnt end up on Cites I as well, guess I should stockpile them before that happens.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Seems like making all trade(of a plant) completely illegal would discourage anyone from trying to propagate the species, but I am certain they are smarter than me.

Then you will be in the situation many are now with the stockpiles of BRW that may become worthless due to lack of documentation. I would recommend keeping documents on ANY wood that is purchased. it's always good to have records for many reasons I won't go into. Besides the paper you would have to store takes up virtually no space. Scan it into a computer and have it on a backup and you will never lose the records. Simple an well worth the time IMO.

What documentation? When I ask the lumberyard they wouldn't give me straight answer as to their origin!

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Unless they stop clearcutting, all the banns in the world won't stop BRW from becoming extinct. It will just go in the burn pile if there is no commercial value.

Al

I thought the whole idea of CITES is to stop elephant poaching.

I don't think all rules are made for the benefit of anyone except for the rulemakers themselves.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

If nothing else, keep the receipts. At least that is documentation as to when and where you got the wood from. Better than nothing. In the BRW case it would show a paper trail of ownership and the wood being in the country before the new legislation went into place.

Me, I'll just steer clear of anything with that many restrictions. I hate paperwork, lol. They tried to put me at a desk in front of a computer once. Needless to say I was back out in the shop within the day. Hahaha

"Roughly 5,600 species of animals and 30,000 species of plants are protected by CITES against over-exploitation through international trade."

http://www.cites.org/eng

Well for now African blackwood isn't under any restriction but I fear for the future.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

BRW has been illegal to carry across national boundaries for a long time, but they only really started to enforce the ban when they came up with a florescence test a few years ago. The fact that you can distinguish BRW from the others by scent means that it has different chemicals in it, so it's at least theoretically possible to distinguish it chemically. From what I've read, they swab it with two swabs, one with alcohol and the other with water, and compare the florescence, although I don't remember exactly which one does what. The point is that the powers that be feel they have a reliable non-destructive test that only requires access to a bare spot on the wood. Unless you are ready to challenge the chemistry you're not very likely to win that argument in a court.

A post on another forum gave me some cause for hope. By comparing the actual texts of the regulations, it seemed to imply that it would still be legal to buy and sell BRW objects so long as you could prove that the wood was in the US prior to June of 1992, when it was CITES listed. It may also be legal to trade in wood from trees that were cut prior to that date but not imported, such as stump wood, if you've got a clear paper trail. It may take a while for them to 'gin up the proper forms, though. This will not cover stuff that 'fell off the back of a truck' in New Jersey, but at least the old stock may not simply be presumed illegal.

This does not mean it's going to be clear and hassle free sailing, though. Confiscation pursuant to a legal case is not considered a 'punishment', and you could incur some serious costs in getting it back. I guess the time has come to dot the i's and cross the t's on the paper trail.

The CITIES is not a US but an international law. It is possible to get the wood covered under legal paper work . Lengthy and costly this not will drive the cost up about 60% on BRW guitars.
Even ebay is now posting a disclaimer about it when you list a wood for sale.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Maybe this is what Tai Fu remembers reading:

From American Lutherie #69, 2002, an article by John Calkin:

"The most trying wood I have used to any extent is Brazilian rosewood. The stuff loves to warp while it is sitting on the shelf, and once installed in a bender is capable of almost anything. Brazilian can be so squirrelly that an occasional side may have to be discarded, since trying to sand out the ripples would leaved the wood paper thin. We might expect this from the dregs of Brazilian that are left today, but I bought wood thirty years ago that was just as bad. Once made into a guitar, Brazilian rosewood frequently checks and cracks for no apparent reason. If it wasn't for the incredible premium that the wood demands, I don't believe anyone would use it today. The stuff is grossly overestimated."

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

I picked a lousy year to invest in 150 sets of BRW.... so much for retirement.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Calkin is a hilarious personality, I think he throws out ideas many of us have had when it comes to these "holy grail" tonewoods. I have a small amount of Brazilian, bought it for furniture over thirty years ago, paid $19.00 a board foot. One day I will be good enough to do it justice, I hope. One of the great OLF WTFs I remember early on was some pinhead building his first guitar from BRW. Of course in his opinion he did it justice. Hey hey my my.

Tim

All sure makes a case for white oak...

Haans have been to your web site and can see why you like white oak so much; beautiful work. I've got a couple of sets myself but haven't worked with it yet. I'm pretty much for trying any hardwood just because they are all interesting to me. Haven't found one yet that I don't like.

I'm a recent user of white oak myself and I think it's fantastic. I've got a nice stash of it collected from an old barn.