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I recently did an egg pore fill on Bubinga, and found the large pores OK to fill, but even after 5 tries the small pores didn't fill.
I'm wondering what I did wrong?
Any suggestions?

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

There's also CA.

Some people like to use medium viscosity. I haven't actually completed a finish with what I was going to switch to, as I've decided that the number of gloss vs satin guitars I do doesn't justify doing gloss myself and I'm farming it out, but...

I did do a number of test panels with IC-GEL, which is a thick viscosity CA with the texture of tooth paste or cake icing. You can lay down a blob, squeeze it into the pores with a credit card and basically use the same techniques as epoxy, just in smaller patches. Dries in about ten minutes to the touch, though I would leave overnight before spraying. Seemed on pass would do it as well.

One thing though, you do need to seal the wood with a couple of coats of something, otherwise where you lay down the glob with be slightly darker than where you spread it too.

As well, water based coatings didn't seem to stick, so you need a sealer on top as well.

I was real excited about it, but then I started making satin guitars and haven't had to do a gloss top for two years at this point, so I figured further exploration was a waste of time.

John Hall wrote on his forum that he (I think) discontinued using CA as a pore fill because of adhesion problems -- I am sure he'll comment.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I don't like CA pore fill... it's bad enough dealing with fumes and possibly gluing yourself to the guitar, but it's not that good of a fill material except for minor repairs.

I have never been able to fill small pores in wood such as bubinga or maple anyways, I am just assuming that those aren't meant to be filled and I figure a small amount of grain sinking is ok, at least it reminds the customer that the guitar is made of wood rather than plastic. I mean factory guitars have grain sinking too unless they use UV cured polyester like Taylor...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Hmmm. No sorry I have no suggestions. I've done it now on the last 4 guitars I've built and that was mahogany, rosewood and oak. It could be that the egg white is to thick so it comes out of the little pores when you sand over it. OR perhaps you need a finer git paper to make smaller dust particles.

That may well be the problem.
It did cross my mind, they were almost pin-pricks.
But I only noticed them after I started to finish, so just continued using the finish to fill the pores (I won't say how many coats it took But I will mention I gave up using wads of abrasive paper and turned to my trust card scraper. Mutter. mutter )
I'll keep that in mind for the future, any maybe try P320/360 on woods that may warrant it.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

For you guys that like doing things the old fangled why -- you may won't to check out the PBS "Wood Wright Shop" Roy Underhill and his guest explain how to use HHG for pore filling. That episode's main theme was hammer veneering. They were working with Black Walnut when the pore filling topic came up. All the episodes are always on line free.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I hope that I'm not the only one wondering, but do you beat the egg whites, or use them straight from the shell?

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I tried the joint compound. It did not stick to the sealer coat. At least I was able to wipe it off with a damp cloth. I reckon it should be applied to bare wood, but I'm not taking that risk.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

I don't use eggs for anything but cooking and baking -- but just the same this is/was my understanding of how they related to wood working.

http://www.monicasguitars.com/Main%20Bo ... ggwash.htm

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

There is no "good" pore filler.....just the one you hate least

I've been using drywall compound and dye for my last few projects. Like the Robbie O'Brien video on YouTube. Seems to work pretty well for me

Hahahah I like the bit about the Spanish Tortilla.

That description is more of what I believe is a process called glair. I've never seen anything raise the grain like egg whites. The grain will really come out. I have seen articles online about making the glair by whipping the egg whites till they stiffen then place that on a screen over a bowl in the fridge overnight. The next morning you will have a liquid in the bowl. Not sure what this will accomplish and I have not felt the need to try it. But after that initial grain raising and maybe even one more then you can actually use the egg whites as a filler. You don't beat them or whip them up just use right out of the shell.

How about using good old fashioned oil based grain filler? I used it on a couple of guitars I refinished with lacquer and it is easy to apply, fills really well and doesn't shrink if allowed to dry properly and there is no sanding involved. It has been used for years and years on furniture with excellent results and is time tested. I have used it on many furniture pieces in the past and they are still holding up today. I made an end table and a chess set when I was in high school wood shop and both were finished with oil filler and lacquer and both look great today all but for a few scuffs or dings.

I personally think guys who resort to trying all these different glues, epoxies, eggs and who knows what are just asking for issues down the road. I like to stick with finishes that have been time tested and proven they will hold up for many years. The last thing I would want is someone bringing their guitar back with the finish falling off because peanut butter was the new craze for filling pores in wood...

I will stick with French Polish and Lacquer and the traditional sealers and fillers on my work.

Bob

+1 for sure. I don't know why people make it so hard on themselves. Traditional oil/silica filler works just fine, and is much faster and easier than most of the alternate methods. However, the OP said that it is not available in his location. The LMI microbead waterbased stuff works well for me, and is nearly as fast and easy.

In fairness, egg and hide glue fills have been used for centuries. They do have a particular look that may or may not be appealing. Hide glue fill can cause issues down the road sometimes.

Can you tell me of suppliers who will ship it to Taiwan? I cannot find it here (they are all waterbased or polyester based).

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Eggs have been used for centuries. I got into it because I thought it would be cool to use a totally edible finish of eggs, alcohol and bug poop (kinda gross to eat but wont kill ya) on a guitar I built from wood in my back yard and the eggs came from one farm over the hill. I have customers who appreciate this too. I've used oil fillers in the past and honestly I don't find them any easier or more difficult to use. If Tai is having a hard time getting materials and wants to stay away from potentially dangerous stuff (me too!) I just thought it would be a good idea to mention this technique. It really does work

Egg whites sound real interesting thanks for the info. If you are going to go for non toxic It is of my opinion that the shellac method of oil/shellac/alcohol/silica(Pumice) is a great option. As far as I can tell by reading the info here, the egg white also sounds good as it has been time tested for centuries.

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久保
美智え

You really can't buy Oil based grain filler there? But you can buy Lacquer?

You may also look for Sanding Sealer for lacquer (not Vinyl Sealer). A sanding sealer has high solid content and will fill most grain in a couple of coats. You have to give it plenty of dry time because it does have a tendency to shrink back if not completely dry.

Bob

I just don't get it..... First this is about the 100th thread about pore filling that the OLF has had and none of the information has changed, it's all here already with a little searching...

Next why not epoxy? Unless you are concerned about a sensitivity to you or others that is developing epoxy works great.

I've tried drywall coumpound, shellac and pumice, eggs, paste fillers, that aweful stuff the LMI and Stew-Mac sell that is said to be like what Martin uses, CA, etc. and never once did I get the results that I do easilly from epoxy. You don't even need Z-Poxy because West, System III, or any quality epoxy with a thin viscosity and longer open time will work great.

Everything that we do and use seemingly has the potential for danger Will Robinson but we endeavor to be informed, do our homework, use proper safety precautions, etc. and get through it anyway.

Epoxy pore filling is easy, reliable, does not shrink back like most of the other choices will and very available no matter where one lives. Nitrile gloves, some fresh air, and a proper methodology and you're good to go.

If the reluctance to use epoxy is tied to some prior failures why not discuss methods, again... and let's see if we can help you out with a tried and true solution, available where you live, that we know works. Please note smiley face...

Ditto Hesh,

"Epoxy pore filling is easy, reliable, does not shrink back like most of the other choices will and very available no matter where one lives. Nitrile gloves, some fresh air, and a proper methodology and you're good to go."


Lets see, I started doing this stuff out of high school circa 1963 do you think I've tried more than a few pore filling techniques?


And its transparent!! As much as I don't like the term - it does make the grain pop. If you want contrast add a drop of tint.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Greg B, Are you finishing with nitro over the sealed LMI micro beads? And have you experienced any shrink back? I typically use CA, which does not shrink, but does require applying in the spray booth for proper ventilation, and a respirator and goggles.

Thanks, Chuck

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With all the different types of pore filling I like sytem 3 epoxy for headstocks and oil - base for the neck. The water base ones raise the grain and I don/t care for the look, tinting oil base looks better in the pores to my eye.

And there will be a hundred more on every topic including this. Some people like to talk "live" and not bother with searching. Some people like answering the questions again. I like reading them again because every now and again, something changes. If you stop and think about it, if no one posted on these subjects (again), soon, there would be nobody talking on these forums since there are only so many subjects.

Mike

Searching isn't foolproof. You sometimes have to read through hundreds of threads/posts to hopefully find what you are looking for. That takes a lot of time.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I don't agree Mike. You have been here since 2008 yet currently you have two threads that you started where the dead horse has been beaten so very much someone is likely to turn us all in for animal cruelty....

For all of time on this forum and others it has been kindly requested that folks at least make an effort, at least make an attempt to search for information that may be here already. If it's not there some of us will go to the ends of the earth, take all the time that we may not even have.... to reach out and help all we can. And some of us WANT to help others but it becomes more difficult when a very few believe that consideration of others does not apply to them....

Currently, Mike...., you have two such threads running that you started concerning water white finishes and Z-poxy technique. Both topics have many, many prior threads if you simply search for them and both topics have information from only a few months ago too....

Frankly Mike it's rude to do this, to intentionally believe that you don't have to search the forum when you know all too well that these subjects have a great deal of recent discussions readily available.... that is, of course, if one even cares...

Some years back Mario requested that folks don't title threads such as "Looky Here...." or "What Should I Do" and he couched his request as being for reasons that 1) he wants to help and 2) He's a busy guy and 3) If he has to click open cryptically titled threads to even have a clue what the subject is his valuable time is being wasted, he only has a finite amount of time, and if this continues someone may not get his help as requested because someone else wasted his time.

I'm now seconding this request and specifically making it to you. Please consider doing some homework on your own.... and please consider too that others may not want to beat the same dead horse over and over and over and over.... and please also consider that to date no one has ever expressed an objection to doing a simple search of this forum before posting..... except you.