Official Luthiers Forum!

I have always done it as Waddy describes, with a temporary, improvised set up. That's because I'm strictly a hobby builder and it's rare that I would shoot the joints for more than one instrument a year. Of course, I'm the first to admit that I'm not very good at it. (And let's face it: At my rate of production, I won't ever acquire much practice). All that said, each time I cobble up a temporary shooting setup, I wonder if I should build something better. This ramped idea is something that has never even occurred to me until I read this thread. I can see the advantage of using more of the cutting iron on each pass, and I believe this might be helpful to those who get out numerous tops and backs at a time.

What Link said!

You know.... I used to struggle with getting this joint right too until Link talked me though it over the phone.... These days it takes me maybe several minutes tops before I am happy with the joint.

I don't have or use a dedicated shooting board and like our friend Patrick I simply cobble something temporary together and get to it.

As such I'm not all that keen on ramped, not ramped, what ever shooting boards in general for the very little that I need to use one for.

To me what's FAR more important then trying to embed a straight edge, incline a jig, use a router in a dedicated jig, you name it.... is to learn to use a plane properly AND learn how to sharpen the heck out of the iron as well.

IMHO most of the time that people struggle with jointing for Lutherie it's not the jig, an incline (decreasing or increasing), etc. it's not learning how to apply the pressure slight as they may be to the plane transitioning from front to back through the stroke. A very sharp blade is key too.

Get these two things down and you too may not need no stinkin.... jig either....

I have visions of my high school English teacher turning over in her gave if she reads my posts....

My shooting plane has a skewed blade. If i had a normal looking ramped shooting board, it would reduce the blade angle and prevent getting a shearing cut. That said, I only use a shooting board for end grain or miters. For long grain joints, I use a scrap of 1/4 ply.

-jd

It would be nice to be clear and make sure we are all talking about the same thing. There is the shooting board that is used for end grain(usually squaring cuts) where the plane rides and registers on the edge of the shooting board. It is fairly short, usually has a bench stop on it and for these a skewed plane or a ramp is helpful. (Although I have got by just fine for years without the skew)
I think what most of us are talking about is edge jointing and for this the work is often too long for a dedicated board but for luthiery where our edge jointing is typicaly not longer than 22" a dedicated board is practical. This type of board simply elevates the work and holds it. These can be very simple or have a end stop ,things to hold the work, a ramp, etc., but the plane registers of off the work and a longer plane is helpful.
The latter type is what my previous comments about a ramp, skews, etc. are intended.
Obviously all this is moot if the plane is not tuned and the iron is not perfectly sharp.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

I'll just stick to building cabinets, furniture and guitars and ukes about 70 hours a week and actually making a living and getting things done. I stayed clear of about 100 shooting board threads for years now, heard all the woes though. I choose to make a simple statement and continue reading the thread and the whole thing comes back full circle to sharp planes irons and technique and applying the correct pressure. Reminds me of a buddy who studied woodworking with one of the gurus of the 60's, could tell you everything about his handmade planes and succeeded in building at least 2 or 3 furniture pieces in 25 years. Darn nice planes though and sharp. His widow got about 10 bucks a piece for those planes and nearly paid for the guys who had to haul off all the undone "masterpieces". Sometimes I find valuable things here, other times it's sillier than the weather channel during a hurricane.

Happy building,

Tim

Wow, that could be taken as pretty insulting. Are you directing some/all of this at me ? Are you calling my training, my experience, my work, my participation silly? Are you suggesting that after you make a "simple statement" that should be the end of discussion, that you have the last word on the subject.
Amazing. What I think is really silly is how contentious this gets. I like to share what I know and teach and help other people. What I have (way to slowly) come to realize is that internet forums are a very poor place to do this.
I think I will take my ball and go home.
Bye ya all.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

We're roasting a pork leg for Easter dinner, and first step in our house is always to cut off the lower shank to leave us with no more than a 12" roast. When I asked my daughter to go get the saw, she wanted to know why I needed to cut so much off.

"Well dear, that's how my mom taught me to do this, and it's a very important part of the process."

Still, curiosity wins, so I call my mother to ask why this is so important. "Well," she says, "that's how my mom taught me to do it, and she always emphasized how important it was to roasting a leg like this".

Finally flustered, I call my grandmother. Her response - "Geeze, you're still doing that? I only ever did that because we couldn't fit anything more than a 13" roasting pan in our old oven."

There are a lot of tools and procedures which are developed for good reason, then taught and carried over to other applications long after the original motive has been lost or forgotten about, and may no longer apply.

Skew angle - on a 22" cut, you'd need a foot wide plane and a pretty steep ramp to amount to enough skew to have any meaningful effect. Blade wear - with the materials and dimensions we're dealing with, I guess I'd just say I wouldn't consider it much of a concern for edge jointing soundboards and backs. Honestly I'd joined hundreds of tops and backs with traditional straight shooting methods, and had never even heard of anyone using a ramped setup for this particular application until now. It might not hurt if your planes are set up perfectly, but it really isn't necessary at all for this job.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Actually I lied. My grandmother's long dead and we're probably having for dinner, but you get the point.

Edit: wow - the word is not available as text, but automatically converted to emoticon. Not what I intended, but I guess it works.

Test: beer

Edit #2: nope, I guess no fancy emoticon for that one.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Hopefully just this thread, Link, and not forum participation altogether. We've taken enough hits around here.

Link, I've always regarded your post as very valuable, I would hate to see someone with your background leave.
Same with some of the others who've left recently.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

What Jim said.

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George :-)