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Yeah, I wasn't really speaking to his specific guitar body because 1) photos can be deceiving and it would be dangerous to make assumptions based on that and 2) I wanted to give him an idea that the shape of the body (straightness of sides at the neck block, radius or not on the top, any other quirks of a given geometry) will dictate the final neck angle. I build my boxes and figure the neck angle based on the geometry at the neck block and where I want a straightedge to be above the saddle location. My main point was, I wouldn't know what "neck angle" to "order" without having done the calculations on the completed body. As for the "how" of setting the neck angle, there are lots of places to find those specifics but yeah, if you have some crazy geometry going, you may not be able to get a working angle that creates a playable guitar in a specific case (maybe this one, but I'm not willing to tell him to trash the whole thing based on a picture). Maybe he could find someone like you in his town, who he could take it to and would be able to tell him within seconds if it's salvageable, having it in hand?

My thoughts are, and you can take them for what they are worth being a guy who only has 5 instruments under his belt, shelf this project. It's a rather ambitious project for a beginner with all of the cut away points. I too would suggest working a kit. I did two kits before starting a guitar "from scratch". There's a lot of skill to develop in building a guitar and a lot to learn in why things are done. On top of that there are as many methods to build a guitar as there are guitar builders, so as a beginner it's hard to pick and choose between these methods. What works in one guys building methods might not be the best to coincide with another method. My suggestion would be to find a kit with good instruction. Follow those instructions as closely as possible, all the while learning why they are using that method to achieve a particular outcome. You will learn a lot doing this as well as pick up some of the hows and whys. Take small steps.

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Kyle

To check if the headblock area is really fixed since flattening it... Lightly clamp in place a straight, fretboard sized (and thicknessed) piece of mdf or whatever, lay a straight edge down it and see if it matches up to Cumpiano's recommendations. If it's still a long way off (my guess would be that it will be), I wouldn't trash it, not at all.

If I were you, I'd put it aside as a project. Only because I think you're probably better off investing your time in building a body with the correct geometry and, ideally, exactly from the Grellier L-00 plans. This one can, at least for a while, be hung on the wall as your first "workshop decoration guitar", and in time you'll look at it as an important part of your learning curve... One day, maybe soon, you may want to remove the top and correct the geometry and that will be good experience too. Chalk this up as a lesson learned on the importance of the angle the body creates in the headblock area and how it relates to the neck backset angle. This guitar can wait for its chance at life. Of course, leaving a project unfinished, even with a view to return to it, can be irksome... You do still have the option of biting the bullet, removing the binding, taking the top off, and correcting the geometry now. (Please step in anybody who notices a mistake in my thinking!) I just think it will be mentally draining and there are no guarantees that thing will work perfectly second time around.

My advice would also certainly be to buy a neck blank and make your own. That is definitely the next step in your progress, so maybe it would be best to make one for this guitar so you have one behind you before making your "lessons learned" body. But that means you'd have to fix this body... How about this: Buy a neck blank and make a scarfed headstock and stacked heel neck. Leave it big enough for a full depth Grellier L-00... That's time well spent and, by then, you'll probably have decided whether you want to fix this body or make a new one.. You seem happy joining, bending sides and bracing, so I reckon you should make the new one and make sure to do better on every step of the process.

So I suppose that isn't a clear, "do this" answer, but hopefully it's "food for thought".

As for building your dream guitar as your first. You had a good crack at that on your first, it's time to try a traditional one! Should one be able to reach their dreams on their first attempt? Some dreams are better earned. I dream of winning the lottery to become rich but I know it's much more deserved if my big house is due to hard work rather than blind luck.

As for whether or not you should buy a kit, I may not be qualified to say as I built my first, most certainly not a kit, under the supervision of a tutor. Maybe things would've been a nightmare on my first solo build had I not been on that course. But I just don't think so. We all find our own way, and I know this may be controversial to some, but I would never buy a kit anything.

[Apologies for the length of this letter. if I had more time, it would be shorter ]

Maybe I was a bit harsh telling him to burn it... But if it were mine I would salvage the wood I can and I really would burn it. I tend to like clean endings rather than have a thumb stuck in my eye every time I see it.

Maybe he can take it apart and rebuild it and it could become a fine playing guitar, who knows...

I guess I am not one to speak since my #1 is not even finished. But then again, maybe I will end up burning mine... If I do I will be sure to take a video of it in flames and post it here for all to see.

Cheers,
Bob

P.S. Jeremy, remember my previous post where I said everybody does things differently? Well this is one of those cases, I would burn it. Beth would cut a new neck joint, Nick would try to salvage it by rebuilding it and SKBarbour would put it on a shelf and build a kit.

So there you have it, you need to figure out what is best for Duhjoker.

Just to clarify….I'm not recommending cutting a new neck joint on this guitar. Its very possible that the geometry of the top wouldn't allow any neck angle to produce a playable guitar in this case. But I didn't want to assume that based on one picture because I've taken pictures of my work that have distorted the dimensions. I DID want to explain that you can't just "buy" a neck already angled without having calculated the proper angle for a given body.

I know Jeremy had said that he didn't have a lot of money and most kits are pretty pricey. If he can't do a kit, I'd agree with James Orr and spend the money on Robbie O'brien's online course. I watch parts of that during EVERY build. It costs much less than a kit and allows him to put together whatever quality of wood he can afford to build with. My 0.02$

And to clarify my message... "If I were you, I'd put it aside as a project. Only because I think you're probably better off investing your time in building a body with the correct geometry".

My 0.02p

I didn't mean to twist your meanings guys...

I was only trying to emphasize the point I made earlier which was:



I kind of thought you may have gotten that point, but there I go thinking again...

So sorry for mis-representing what you said.

At this point I don't think I can contribute much more to this thread so:

@ Jeremy, Good Luck with your guitar building ventures and I really hope you get this all figured out.

To the rest... Good luck in helping him achieve his goals.

Cheers,
Bob

Sorry Bob, didn't mean to point fingers or anything like that! I like the point you were making, t'was very important!
No sense of misrepresentation at all, just clarifying my meandering babble!

All is cool!
Nick

I've been told off for thinking many a time but I can't help it!

Ok thank you and you've definitely given me a lot to think about. I'm definitely not gonna scrap or burn it and I could just hang as a pretty but I do want to get into all facets of building including repair work. So I'm gonna do the best I can to get this one done. I honestly didn't have this trouble on the first guitar. The geometry was sound. The only problem with it is I need to actually sit down with it and start fixing the string height which is way too high because I haven't ground down the saddle. Now my supplier also mentioned that my first neck did have around a 2 degree angle which worked. And in my stupidity ordered a neck with out an angle the second time thinking it would be fun to do it myself. ( nervous ha ha). Now I was able to fix the soundboard. It is completely level now. And I did set an ugly non radiused fret board I have for such needs and it looks right. A lot better. I also used my handy mini Level all over the SB to test it. All is fine in soundboard land. I really feel this is salvageable with the right work done to it. And repair work is must learn for any luthier.

I am thinking of buying a kit or just doing the G-plans straight up. And no I didn't know you could buy robbbies DVD's per lesson that sounds better.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

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Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Oh and a lil advice I learned about chisels. They come very very sharp and great care should be taken while using them. Gloves are best. Use them. Trust me you don't want to sever a tendon on your fretting hand. I got lucky and it still needs stitches. But I'm not going through that torture again.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Actually, chisels usually need to be sharpened when you buy them. They're sharp, but they need to be really sharp.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Robbie has a course for that, too: Online Sharpening Course.

When planning anything, pencil and paper are your best friends. Trying to figure the geometry of anything without the planning part is an exercise in frustration and wasted time.
A couple of hours at the desk will save days at the bench!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Mine came razor sharp and are still sharp enough to cut me open easily after using them to make three soundboard and two back board braces. But that's not the point. Safety precautions should be taken when working with sharp tools.

Been working on my first guitar trying to fix my intonation problem when chording. I thought it would be a bunch of work but only really took about 10 minutes to do. The main problem was string height. So I filed my nut a lil and the same with my saddle. Threw some new steel strings on it and started playing. I'm still shocked to tell you truth. I wish I could figure out how to post a sound recording. I had just chalked the whole thing up as a learning process but it truly sounds good to me now. As good as my starcaster which I love any way. But yea that tells me all is not lost on my triple. Just need to put a lil work into it.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Been learning new songs on my first acoustic. To be honest I never thought it would be my go to guitar. Or the everyday player. I just hope I can fix this second one but if I can't I still have The first.

Ok been looking at guitar kits and have decided I would like to build one of the true Martin kits sold at the 1833 store. Same price I been paying for my parts any way, just have to save a couple months. And while I'm saving I can order a book or two. Anyway wanted to ask if any you have ever built one the Martin Kits? And what tools will I need to build one. They tell you what all comes with it but not what you need besides glue. And would this be a good kit to start with?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

I haven't built one so can't help but I think you've make an excellent decision!
I've been saving up myself recently... And selling stuff on eBay... I should have enough for a drill press pretty soon!

Enjoy playing The First, and study hard!

Cheers!

Laminate or non-laminate kit. The laminate kit is obviously cheaper but comes in a cutaway which pleases my need to get to the higher frets. So what's the difference in sound. Is it worth it or should I just wait on the actual wood version. Sounds iffy to me but then again it is a Martin.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

My first was a Martin kit and it came out okay that was in 2000.
It’s my shop guitar, sound good plays well but a little rough on the finish.
There are several companies that can supply you with a kit all the way from fully serviced to just raw material, so you can end up with a kit that is tailored to your wants, tooling available to you and your skill level.
Don’t take me wrong, a Martin kit should work well for you but I think you can get more “Bang for you Bucks” with the smaller guy.
If I wanted a kit I would contact John Hall @ Blues Creek Guitar. I think John’s a straight up guy with years of experience and a wiliness to share his knowledge.

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

+1. John has also been extremely active here from day 1 (see his current setup thread). He has a lot of videos up on YouTube and makes himself available to customers with questions.

Robbie O'Brien posted an incredible resource today on The Acoustic Guitar forum in a very moving display of love. I think it might be of great interest to you, and it'll fit with your new plan very well. Follow the trail of breadcrumbs to the Custom Shop and you'll find it.

He also posted it here:
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42814

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

All right so here's where we stand with the triple. My neck came Saturday along with my new fretboard and frets. Spent a day working on the body neck joint area doing a lil build up at the joint and bringing the top down in that area. Then started actually putting the neck together.working backwards was different but not difficult. My neck maker who is awesome by the way hooked me up real good. He made me neck perfectly to my measurements which really helped plus he did go ahead and put an angle on it. So the first thing I did was place the salvaged truss rod kit in it and then placed the CRS. After that I drilled and installed the neck bolts. To get the bolts in the right place I used a drill bit with a bradded tip which I stuck through each hole then placed the neck in the place I wanted and then twisted it making a perfect mark to then drill using the same bit. I don't know what I did wrong this time but cutting the fretboard to size was a major hassle and then I didn't make it wide enough and looked ugly in a couple places so I made some Mahogany binding and fixed that. After that my saddlematic came in handy and I'm so glad I bought it. It made it so much easier to place the fret board in the right place on the neck. After rechecking 5x I glued it on. So after laquering the headstock and neck I placed bolted it up and was a lil disappointed. String height was way to low. Every fret was low and buzzed up to the 8th fret. So I pulled out my work table and placed the guitar face up. And started visually inspecting the problem. Checked my joint area it was flat and even but could see that the neck was tilted a lil too far back. I think Rick used a two degree angle and it needed a one degree angle. To fix this instead of all the crap I tried last time by trying to sand it to the right angle I simply loosend the bolts and stuck a shim in between neck and joint which fixed the angle after tightening. Then stringing it back up I tuned it and now it's the right angle and the strings are high enough to not cause string buzz when played. Whew!!!! But still a lil more work till it's ready to laquer. Gotta make those shims look natural and seal any gap, AGAIN. Oh well at least I know it will play.

Just my opinion and an open obsrvation but the bottom cut out has made no difference in the sound quality, loudness or intonation along with the absent soundhole.

Yea I checked out many sites on the kits before making my decision on which kit I would like to have. The Martin kit I would like is actually cheaper by $10 than what anybody else has. And buy a hundred if getting the HPL. But after doing some reading that's not a good choice for me. And it's not right, not right at all.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

I don't know how I did it but it's done and tuned and sounding GOLDEN!!! I did do a lot of the set up before and while finishing and that helped. But as far as playing and being in tune with no issues. Thank you Lord!!!

So I set the string height easy enough by making shims and setting the nut in top and then stringing a couple strings. I only needed one single high shim. I had worked the saddle down while working on the previous neck. So that's all I needed really was to make sure the neck angle was a go and string it up. I haven't tested any if the electronics yet but I'm sure they'll work. I can definitely say it was worth all the trouble. And sounds awesome.

I'm calling the guitar the Archangel for the body's pair of wings like shape.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Congratulations! Looks amazing. Fun to watch you take it through the process.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

I really want to thank everyone for your help. Beth, Nick, James, Rusrob, and everyone whose name I can't think of right now. Thank you. You were all instrumental in the completion of this project. And thanks to the OLF in general for this site.

I do hope this project will inspire a lil free'er thinking in the design and engineering aspects of the build.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com