Official Luthiers Forum!

Got my binding glued on. After reading quite a many threads I decided to go with Gel CA glue. It set almost immediately and I had time to put everything in place. Just two minutes or give or take of squeezing it by hand and I was good. Also the gel type fills any imperfections and makes everything look neat. Be sure to keep some card board or contstruction paper handy to gather the squeeze out.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Making good progress. Did you use the KMG style binding jig?

Make sure you have some accelerator around too. It helps because you can have a single large clamp, and clamp trouble spots to close up the gap, then you can drip some thin CA into it, and shoot some accelerator over that and it sets immediately.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I used a piloted router bit from stewmac. I didn't read the part about needing a collet adapter. Of course it's not yelling that either. But oh well. Any way yea it's sized to allow .90. All I had to do was set the depth and go. Some people complained the pilot burned the wood since it wasn't a bearing but I had no burns. I did it all in quarters starting with the top right and working clockwise. The only problem I had was when it caught a splinter and made it bigger and gouging out my soundboard. I was stupid by not double checking but hey lesson learned and fixed.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

I need to polish the top a lil more but I'm hoping to set the bridge tomorrow. I have a stupid question prolly for you guys but this would make it easier to measure. Can I take the saddle out of the slot on the bridge and use the edge of the saddle slot to make my measurement? I can more accurately measure that way.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

If I did it that way I'm aiming for the center of the saddle slot right?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Ok a nice lady at stewmac just messed me up bad. I called to make sure of where I measure the bridge to and she said something about I need to add another 7/64 on top of the compensated value?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

All right according to the link Nick sent me at Mattola the measurements are from the edge of the nut to the center of the bridge saddle slot. So that's what I'm going with. If my measurements and calculations are correct I should have it ready to glue.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Before you glue your bridge on you have to have a complete understanding of what you are doing and why. If you don't your guitar will not have the correct intonation. From experience... don't trust that people are telling you the correct information and make sure you understand why you are doing it (that goes for anything you are doing on a guitar).

I recommended the Stew Mac Saddlematic because it is cheap and it will give you the correct intonation every time.

The hard part to understanding it is to know that your bridge needs to be square to the nut and the saddle needs to be offset on an angle to "compensate" for the stiffness and thickness of you strings. The 1st string needs to be closer to the nut and the bass string needs to be farther away.

This is the booklett that comes with the Saddlematic:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Repair_tools,_specialized/i-4462.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1487

You could make something similar but by the time you got the materials and put it together it is easier and cheaper to just buy one. I try to make all my own tools and jigs rather than buying them but on some things it is better to just pony up and buy it.


In a previous post I asked about a the pictures you posted of shaping your braces and I asked about the radius on your braces.

Your answer was that you did it when you shaped the tops of the braces but my question was not about the tops but where the braces are glued to the top. You do know that your top and back should have a radius don't you? A general rule is that the top should be about a 28 foot radius and your back should be around 15 foot. The radius is what helps give the top and back strength and also puts tension on it so it will vibrate better, making better tone. I am afraid you didn't do that since the pics you posted showed the top on a flat board. Normally you would use a radius dish to glue up your braces and your braces should also have a radius. This give the top and bottom of your guitar a uniform arch.

Another point. I saw where you split the top with your router. Split out can be reduced drastically if you keep from routing into the grain.

What I mean by that is you should rout from the crest of the bout down.

This is a pretty crude drawing but explains it pretty well.

Robert is correct about the need to radius top and back (some threads call it doming). I love the diagram he did for the direction of routing.. If you don't do it that way, you'll be very likely to get splits.

Thanks for your input and the pic is great.

Ok crap!!!!!!!! Can you send me some links about the radius stuff. I don't quite understand. Nobody has pointed this out to me yet and that's my second soundboard. I thought I was going Flat top but I could be wrong. What can I do to fix this before gluing anything else on?

As for the bridge, I decided to try and find a repair shop and see if someone wouldn't mind helping me locate the proper position.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

From the pic's you posted It didn't look like you had any radius on your top.

I hope I don't come across as a know it all because I really don't. I am part way through my first build and I can honestly say I learn something every day. I ordered my kit from LMI this past spring and at this point I have my sides glued and in the mold and have the head block and tail block installed and radiused and just glued the kerfing in. I am just starting on the neck just now. So I am taking my time being positive I know what I am doing before I attempt it. As I said I have been repairing guitars for over 20 years and have rebuilt several including replacing braces and repairing neck joints. So I have a pretty good understanding of what makes a guitar work but there is much I do not know about building from scratch.


OK, about the radius and how I would go about fixing it.

First, Hopefully your guitar is not completely together. I didn't read anything about you working on the back so if it is open you are safe. Next, I hope you glued your braces with hot hide glue. If not hot hide glue you used Original Titebond. Both will come loose with heat. I only use HHG on braces and parts of the guitar that help produce sound (braces, bridges, bridge plates). HHG is like glass when it hardens and will transfer sound vibrations much better than anything else. Titebond is also used for this but some think it is "second best". But both will let loose with heat. I would use regular iron on the outside of your soundboard just over a brace. Once it starts to heat up you should be able to start sliding a seam separation tool (mine is a spring steel putty knife that I have rounded the corners off and have thinned the end down) under the brace. Keep applying heat until you can slip the brace off. Do each brace until you have them all off. That will get you back to where you can put the radius on them and glue them back in..

You can do it a number of ways, I have a jig that I made that has both 15' radius and a 28' radius. I simply clamp my brace into it and use my router table to route out the radius. I then use a go-bar deck (look it up) with a radius dish to clamp the braces up. The radius dish and the radiused braces force the top into the 28 foot radius and it keeps the top in a smooth dome. I have rebuilt 6 or 7 guitars by just removing the back so even with the sides on you can still do a very nice job of putting a smooth radius on.

Before I got my radius dishes I use to use 2" foam under the guitar. The radius on the braces will push the soundboard down to conform to the radius. I have seen some guys just use clamps which will also work. As long as you can figure out how to make the soundboard conform to the braces.

I think (and some will probably disagree) it is extremely important to radius th top and back. Think of it as a drum head, A tight drum head will give you a drum sound... If it is loose it will produce sound but it will not really sound like a drum.

There are lots of places that discuss how to put the radius in the top, Youtube is a good place to start. I am sure if you searched this forum someone has posted about it in depth.

Well look on the bright side... You are learning... Although as you are finding out, learning by doing is a pretty expensive way to do it. I prefer to read as much as I can until I think I understand and then try a dry run with the parts so I can visualize it and then study some more. By doing that I can actually start to see how and (more importantly) how NOT to do some thing. Wen all else fails I come here and ask the guys that actually know how to do it.

I wish you luck, I know you can remove the braces and clean the top up to start again (as long as you didn't use epoxy you are good).

Worse case scenario is you have to start over and you just contributed to your scrap wood box...

Bob

Here is my brace jig. It is pretty simple, the base of the jig has a 15 foot radius on one side and 28 foot on the other. I just clamp a brace into the jig and pass it over my table router with a 1/2" straight bit. I do all of my braces with this jig and then a sand them in my radius dish to get the final shape just before gluing them in.

If you are really good like some guys you could just use a plane but you have to make sure the radius is square and fits tightly against the soundboard or your guitar top and back will look.. well.. lumpy...

Sorry for the messy bench... I am just in the middle of another job and just cleared the clutter out of the way for this shot. The planes and shavings are not related to the brace jig at all.

In terms of the bridge placement there is no need to go to a repair shop. Take a stick 14 inches long or so; put it on your fret board. Line one end up at the top end of the fret board, right where the nut is going to go. Make a mark on your stick right at the 12th fret. Now measure about an 1/8th of an inch more past the mark and make a new mark. That is the distance from the 12th fret you want the saddle at high e string location.

Now you can place the stick right at the 12th fret toward the right of the fret board. Place your bridge so the front end of the saddle slot right above the right most string position on the bridge is at your second mark. No calculations, no fancy tools and no repair shop.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

Did you ever get a guitar making book? I only ask because I'm building my third, still making mistakes, and I've read 1000s of pages about guitar making.

Indeed, many of the participants on OLF subscribe to the school that tops "need" to be domed, radiused, not flat, whatever. Didn't mean to pick on Beth, but many of her forum mates would agree with her statement. I don't. Be assured that there are many guitars with tops built flat that produce wonderful tone, so don't for one minute believe that domed tops are inherently "superior" in tone.

This is your first guitar, and you'll have plenty of time as you build your first 100 to find your own preferred way. If your braces are currently glued to a flat top, leave 'em alone and move on. It doesn't qualify as a "mistake."

I don't feel picked on, Tim and I agree I wouldn't scrap the project just for that. But everything I've read about true flat tops suggests they don't hold up as well under steel string tension over time. In this case, I'm getting the sense he didn't radius the back either. Everyone talks about the difference in strength of a domed vs flat design. Maybe it won't matter for this build, but without someone pointing it out to him, he may not ever know there's another (arguably more accepted) way to build.

The way I have done it recently is make a top rim flat, use flat UTB, but radius the rest of the braces to 25' (and glue it in the dish too).

Then when the top is glued down, it is glued on a flat surface (I feel a relief may be needed in the center to reduce stress). The resulting body has no neck angle problems associated with a radiused rim (ie. square neck joints can almost be used, or require very little back angles) but still have a domed top.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

All right thank you for all of the above. And I apologize but that kind of upset me. I went ahead and took it to a repair shop, I just wanted to have it checked out. I met a guy named Danny that was a lot of help. Gave me few pointers. I told him about the radius on the braces and he looked and said it would be fine. It may not be trigger but it will play. While I was there we used his saddle-matic so I could at least get the bridge set right. And I am very glad I did so. I was off and would have had to reset it. That's one tool I'm going to have to invest in. I realized today that my next build will not just be easier but cheaper too since I have most of the tools.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Got my wiring soldered today so I'm almost ready to glue the back on. Had two questions.

What do you guys do with your wiring when you install preamps and stuff.

On my bridge, I have it glued on real good but I'm still afraid of it shearing off. Those two lil holes are only big enough to hold a tooth pic. Would it be possible to drill a hole in each side wing all the way through to my bridge patch and add bigger dowels or should I just leave it alone?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

C'mon party people throw your hands int the air! C'mon party people wave em like you just don't care.

I am so amazed. I finished my laquer job last night and let it sit over night. Woke up today and glued my bridge dowels in and threw on a set of fender strings. It really sounds good acoustically and has a nice projection. I got the bridge a hair over to the left but my bottom e string doesn't come off the board anywhere up or down so that's cool. I can't really test the hotrail to see how good it sounds electrically but I can wait a few days till my cover and screws arrive but I'm extremely happy with it so far.

Thanks everybody!!! You have all really been a great help. I have learned enough do's and don'ts that I think after buying a couple more tools like a radius dish and saddle matic that I can do my next one with very lil help. Thanks so much you guys.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Still haven't laquered my access cover and waiting on knobs too. Two different jacks to use two different pickup systems.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

When I figure out how to record and post a sound byte I will.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Great job there Duhjoker. Beautiful grain and that shape and simple appointments remind me a lot of a Danelectro.