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I've done guitars without inletting the braces and never had a problem. Don't understand what's the big deal here.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

What you're calling the popsicle brace is actually called a center reinforcement strip. I'm not just being picky…a popsicle brace is parallel grained, and the center reinforcement strip is made with the grain going perpendicular to the length. This gives cross grain support to the back joint and I strongly recommend you do it. It helps hold the joint against humidity changes and if your first back joint wasn't perfect, it will be useful to have.

With regard to your neck, and since you paid most for that part, I recommend you read through a whole neck-building process and study that before taking a saw to that wood. Then if you can't conceptualize what you're reading, you can ask questions before making the cuts. Do you have the Campiano book. It's probably the best option for you because he discusses the entire process making the assumption the reader is a complete newbie. Good luck!

Ok I may be dumb here but could you explain the center reinforcement strip a lil better? Me and my friend are a lil confused. Are you saying the grain of the CRS runs parallel with the grain of the backboard or the grain needs to run opposite the grain of the Back board? Sorry just want to make sure. Ordered my book still waiting. Amazon takes their time.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

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JOker.... you can see a good picture on my build here:
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41876


Scroll down and you'll see the pic where i am glueing the braces on the back. Running down the center you see a strip where the grain runs crosswise to the grain of the back. When i put the decorative strip down the center between the two back pieces, there actually was a problem where the dye on the black strip caused the glue joint to let go when i was cutting out the back. It only let go for about an inch up from the bottom so the center strip is critical in holding the two sides together if any more spots are weak.

I have seen some builders do that for the top but instead of a strip they use little squares or diamond shaped pieces that span the joint to serve the same purpose, strengthening the glue joint.

Ok I'm starting to get it now. I was freaking out cause I thought I had to notch the back bracing and was trying to figure out how to get a long piece of wood cut that way. So what kind of materials can I use. Do they need to be hard wood or from my bracing or can they be made from the sound and back board scraps cut to right dimensions?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Notch the backstrip, not the brace.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

The centers trip can be spruce or mahogany. Got to LMII.com and look at the 'mostly' wood" then "inside the box" or just search for back strip or center reinforcement strip. You'll see a picture and description.

As Tai said, glue that on first, then notch precisely to fit the braces at 90degrees to the enter strip.

As Robert said, make little diamonds or squares of spruce from your top cutoffs to use across the center joint of your lower bout on the top.

Been researching the CRS. Ok please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I have read. There is a lot of opinion stating that the CRS is more of a traditional hold over from the time of poor adhesives. Some say its more decorative now. That it does help reinforcement but does not affect tonal quality. Seems a lot of great guitars are made with and with out them. Just as an example my starcaster has no center strip. The free online book by John kinkead ( don't know if this book is worth anything to you luthiers) says I can use perpindicular cut strips of my soundboard scraps.

Now of course I will defer to you guys that know better than me. Like I said this is what I've read please correct any misinformation as needed.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Today has been a very constructive day. I started out cutting some strips from leftover soundboard and for reinforcing strips. That all I really had left I could work with. I then glued them on, the rest of the day I spent notching out said strips and gluing the back braces. I can see now the benefit of having the strips. They also allow you too better align the back when gluing on.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Do you mind if we go back to discussing the top? Just for clarity, do you mind telling us how tall the braces are? Do you know how thick the spruce top is? It's common for some plans to be over-built.

My braces are 1/4" wide. I shoot for .5" tall at the joint of my X (cap your joint btw, a thin 1/16" sliver or less is all that's neededbv ). My lower face braces tend not to be that tall. Perhaps 3/8" or so around the peaks if tapered or scalloped as you've done, and in the area of 1/4" tall when I'm doing what's called "parabolic" shaped braces.

This is all relative to what the specific top sounds like in my hand when I tap it, and "painting by number" like this isn't ideal, but 85% of the time, things wind up in this neighborhood.

Yours just look a bit tall to me. It could be the photo, or it could be that the plans called for it. These things have a very big effect on how lively and resonant the guitar sounds. This is the 80% zone of the 80/20 rule.

No problem. The X braces are right at a half inch at the joint. The other braces are shorter 3/8 for the UTB and extra support braces. The LTB 's are at 3/8 and the STB's are around a quarter inch. They are prolly taller by a mm or two. I wanted to leave the braces that werent quarter sawn a lil taller thinking that might make them a lil stiffer. I tried to make them around the same size as what the plans say. My soundboard is right at 1/8 of an inch and still needs sanding and work.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Someone said that quartersawn or not doesn't affect brace stiffness, but runout does... Is that true? I always quartersaw my braces because that's what everyone else does.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I got my back all pretty with makore wood veneer and I was thinking about getting some curly maple for the top. What would be the repercussions of doing so?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Don't veneer your acoustic top! An acoustic guitar only works (projects sound) because of the movement of the top…primarily the lower bout. I don't know for sure, because I don't know anyone who's ever really veneered or laminated a decent top, but I suspect you will make it sound more like a solid body by doing that. Also, if you already have your tap tone where you want it (and remember, you're going to be adding the bridge, which is like a heavy, dense brace right in the middle of the part we want to have the most mobility), why mess with that?

It's interesting that you said that about the solid body sound. My goal is to build a hybrid that I can play for a few people close by or by myself, with the option to go full electric.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Fine, then build a solid body, at least you can just worry about the pickups and not worry about bending wood, carving braces, worry about humidity, etc.

You can always put a good pickup on a well build acoustic guitar but an acoustic guitar that only sounds good plugged in is a poorly made acoustic guitar.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Gotcha no veneer!

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Yup

Ok so veneer is out of the equation but I was looking around and found a company that sells curly maple tops. I was thinking about going ahead and buying a new top and saving this one for a future project. Would a straight up curly maple top be all right or is it too hard a wood to be a viable soundboard?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

The most important parameter for top wood is the stiffness to weight ratio. String tension determines the minimum stiffness required, and wood with a higher stiffness to weight ratio will make a lighter top, which roughly translates to a louder guitar. Curly maple is stiffer than spruce, but it is also heavier and has a lower stiffness to weight ratio, so it's not the optimum choice for an acoustic guitar.

On the other hand, with an acoustic/electric, a lighter top is more subject to feedback problems, so curly maple may well work better than spruce when played electric, but will sacrifice loudness when played acousticly.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Curly maple is only going to work when your top is like 1/4" thick or more, and that means you're building a ES-335 type guitar that aren't meant to sound good acoustically... It will sound like a solid body electric that is more resonant (basically a semi hollow body guitar). Hardwood topped guitars do exist, but those are usually birch or mahogany. If you want maple top use PLAIN maple because curly maple is actually structurally unstable, hence it would need to be more than 1/4" thick and wouldn't sound good.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Oh well maybe next time. I guess I need to first finish one and then go with any cosmetic wood afterward when I won't mess it up.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

This is the page selling the tops.
http://www.northridgehardwoods.com/SolidBodyTops.htm

Ok I'm just curious here and not trying to be cheeky at all but if curly maple is unstable as a top and would need to exceed or meet 1/4 inch in order to be viable which would be too much. What exactly are the 1/8 inch tops they sell used for?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

I can't say if they will work or not but it may be too small for acoustic guitars because they are meant for solid body drop or carved tops.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Those are definitely for smaller solid body electrics but just because I'd seen it before, he is an all maple Taylor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMTKBzkfS3E.
I think most would recommend you stick with spruce though.