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Hello,

just a small question, got here a board of ancient Kauri, very fine grained, straight, qtrsawn etc...could yield out 4 tops for classical guitars or two back and side sets for classical guitar building. It is damm tight in measurments, but it would probably work...

Here in Europe this wood is quite rare and difficult to get in good quality, so actually nobody has experience with it at all....including me.

What would you go for, the tops or the sets? What is the market / are the luthiers looking for?

Any advice highly appreaciated!

Thank you in advance, Alex

P.S.: Sorry, no pictures yet on hand...

While I was living in New Zealand, I worked pretty hard to develop a relationship with the Ancient Kauri Kingdom, which is the likely source of your material. I was able to get some material selected by their artist-in-residence -- an example of the "white bait swimming in waves" figure. I've made one guitar from it and have enough in stock for two more from the same billet. Have a look at http://www.mullinguitars.com/ancient-kauri-sitka-0711.html

Bear in mind there is much variation from piece-to-piece, so your mileage may vary. There is no way that my stock is suitable for tops -- it is not at all stiff and the figure is partially due to the alternating areas of runout. While it is not petrified, at 30-45,000 years buried in swampland, it long ago stopped behaving like wood. From my experience:
- not at all stiff, so make some allowance for thickness
- bends super easy with no spring back
- marks very easily and these telegraph deep into the wood, whether it be bandsaw marks, accidental scrapes, or sanding scratches
- CA will wick through a plate thickness and cause staining on both sides (why I don't have enough in stock for a 4th). Don't bring CA near any surface unless you seal with shellac
- ditto for epoxy
- doesn't like edge tools and tends to behave like MDF.
- machines well
- sanding should go to much higher grits 600+ (Attached picture is of an unfinished back plate)
- seal with shellac to protect while building
- known for the chatoyance of its figure, especially under lacquer

There's others lurking here with experience, so maybe you'll get more responses. Any specific questions, just fire away.


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out of topic, perhaps, but i´ll ask it: what about non-acient kauri - have you (or anyone else) tried it?

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I'm with Tim, I would shy away from using this as top wood.
You could make it work, but you will have a different sound than a spruce-topped guitar.
Good or bad? Your customer's call.
If you can get two sets (back and sides) I would suggest that is your wisest choice.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Yes. Kauri (Agathis australis) still grows in the northern half of New Zealand's North Island, although the inventory has been decimated since human settlement (I won't start an argument by claiming when that was). These trees can be massive, especially in diameter. They were/are preferred by Māori for construction of their largest "waka" (war/transport canoes) and were exploited heavily by Europeans from the 19th century on, not only for structural and finish lumber, but also supplying gum for varnish.

Be aware that terminology applied to kauri extracted from swamps is not regulated. Most will use the term "swamp kauri", referring to material buried for as few as 5-6,000 years, while "ancient kauri" is usually reserved for the truly old stuff. The Ancient Kauri Kingdom in Wainui (http://www.ancientkauri.co.nz) is worth a visit if you come to New Zealand, and they have furniture and gift items for sale, as well as a museum on the kauri trade. The certificate of authenticity provided by AKK states that "Ancient Kauri" timber "is aged from 30,000 to more than 50,000 years old". This statement is supported by radio-carbon dating of samples processed by independent laboratories. The bulk of wood sales to craftsmen are through their US affiliate at http://www.ancientwood.com. You can see a short video on the extraction process at http://vimeo.com/31739458

Harvesting of kauri is now strictly controlled and generally confined to salvage of damaged or threatened trees. I have used "new" kauri slabs for interior kitchen and bathroom finish, but not for guitars. Other builders use it routinely for tops, and use swamp-extracted material for other parts. Two of New Zealand's guitar makers have established something of a niche in the kauri market: Laurie Williams (http://www.guitars.co.nz)and Christian Druery (http://www.christiandruery.com).

Addendum: I would be remiss not include a link to this kiwi-made film: http://www.songofthekauri.com/. The website has a trailer and a list of upcoming screenings worldwide. I confess I haven't seen it. I was given a pair of tickets to the first screening in Wellington, but was already scheduled on business overseas. I'd love to get the chance to finally see it -- maybe when I'm back in NZ at Christmas.

Thanks so much Tim!

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

If dimensions are tight for a classical and the quality of the wood is marginal structurally, why not cut it for electric guitar tops? Looks and a good story is all you need for them.

Speaking of electric guitars, Joh Lang and his son Danny have carved out a niche for ancient kauri with their business near Auckland: http://www.langcaster.com. They do marvelous work on solid bodies with material that couldn't possibly be used for acoustic instruments, emphasizing the "cool factor" of this extraordinary wood.

Thank you for all the information. I don`t see this board useful for an electric guitar, it is not even 1 inch thick...I think I will go for the tops, for back and sides it is somehow too boring. The measurement for tops is OK...no problem at all to get 4 slices out of it...pics still to come...

Electric guitar drop tops are usually about 3/8" thick, but can be thinner or thicker.

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John

yes, of course...but this wood looks too boring for my taste for electric guitar tops...next weekend I will resaw it into 4 tops...am already bit excited about the tap tone, flextest etc....

cheers, alex