Official Luthiers Forum!

I've never made anything like this before and I'd like to ask a few questions of someone who has already made one if I could. I've got most of the parts but I wonder if anyone can recommend a good place to get the shaft? I see mentions of turned, ground and polished shafts; is that just an American term? Because I don't see any English sites mentioning it. Can I just use one of these http://www.metals4u.co.uk/Stainless-Steel-Round-Bar/34-Diametre-316/83/2938/detail.asp] ?

Everything I have (pillow blocks, pulleys) is to fit a 3/4" shaft... I know the plans call for a 1" shaft but I was hoping, seeing as Pat's worked with a hollow 5/8" one, that I could get away with it? I'd prefer not to have to buy parts when I have these ones already.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Nick

-----------

EDIT: Updating OP having now finished sander....

Yeehaw! I am the newest member of the "Pat Hawley Thickness Sander" Club! And if I can do it, anyone can! (With a little help)

Thanks to Pat and everyone else here at the OLF who helped!

Here are some notes I just tapped out. Apart from the guitars I've built, I have very little woodworking experience, so hopefully others in my position will find these useful in some way.

1. I got the 2x4 and ply [for the table] cut at the shop in 5 minutes by a guy who looks just like Super Mario (cap n'all!)
2. Screwed table plys together - Removed screws, applied glue, rescrewed, weights on top.
3. Clamped together short sides of table, used square and a hammer to align everything perfectly. One corner screw at a time, kept checking, adjust, etc, all screws in.
4. Leaned both sides over against wall. Slotted in lower connector rails, leaned upright, clamped lower rails in place. Got square as poss. Measured.
5. Clamped top tails roughly in place. Squared everywhere, measured everywhere. Hammer to bang into place.
6. Screwed bottom rails first, left others clamped with f clamps.
7. Installed pillow blocks and shaft.
8. Installed piano hinge to clamped rail. Screwed table to hinge.
9. Used hammer to line up rail [and hence table] perfectly with shaft. Checked all square. Screwed in place
10. Got other side lined up. square, Square square. Screwed in place... Cut and fitted diagonal braces for strength.
11. Drilled hole for adjuster bolt (then used stewmac dremel base and dremel to rout out hex cavity. no glue). Installed wheels.
12. Used band saw and pillar drill at local school to cut discs and drill them out. (In return, I'm going to give talk a basic talk about guitarmaking to some of their "gifted pupils". Will have to ask for advice from experienced teachers here in a couple of weeks! )
13. Glued four groups of 5 discs and one group of 6 discs - 5,5,6,5,5. Measured shaft [and marked in situ], used dumbbell clamp to mark end, forced discs on, lots of polyurethane glue. Used 1.6mm[ish] corrugated cardboard shims to get the gaps, which, under the pressure of the two big f clamps I borrowed, actually compressed down to less than 1mm.
14. An electrician friend of mine wired it up for me, he had to work out how to wire up the Axminster switch as it doesn't come with instructions, so if anyone needs any help with that, I'll ask him for a run through.
15. Trued up drum with 60 and then 80 grit stuck to 6mm mdf.
16. Sealed drum with 4 coats of mdf primer. Probably not the best thing but psa velcro stuck to it well.
16. A patient friend helped me, holding the psa velcro taught as I wrapped it around the drum.
17. I cut templates to the right size before cutting the psa velcro or sandpaper.

- Get a quick square if you don't have one.
- I bought a 3/4 hp 1400 rpm motor. I think the drum goes at 550 rpm or so. 700 feet per minute.
- I used 3/4 inch shaft assembly rather than 1 inch. Bright mild steel shaft.
- I used a 62 inch belt, but I screwed the lower rails down flat rather than upright so you'll need a smaller belt if you follow the plan.
- I built the frame in situ, where it will mostly be used.
- US and UK 2x4 is different. Check dimensions of yours and modify plan accordingly
- There is a good reason no one uses a hole saw to cut the discs! I only did one that way. It was slow and got wedged in hard. Luckily, the teacher at my local school was very accommodating and had no problem waiting around.
- I got laminate flooring for free from round the back of my local flooring centre.
- I glued laminate flooring on in situ but best to do first I suppose
- Truing up the drum was a little worrying, but only because I cut the discs a bit smaller than I should've. Final diameter of the drum including sandpaper and velcro is 4.95" rather than 5. Doesn't make much difference over the circumference.
- I was a bit worried about the shaft assembly but it all works well. The bore hole in the 5 inch pulley was a bit oversize [19.4ish rather than 19.05ish] so don't try to save money there. Get one likely to be drilled out accurately.
- Runs with minimal wobble and nice and quiet.
- Borrowed hole saw just the right size for vacuum hose. Perfect fit. Sealed hood with tape. I'm really surprised at how well the hood works.
- Came in under budget at about £250

This may be bad advice, but it's how I did it. Think everything through properly! And don't be daunted! If you can build a guitar, you can sure as heckfire build a thickness sander!

Also, do I have to drill the shaft to accept the set screw on the pulley/pillow blocks?
(That is how green I am when it comes to this sort of thing!)

Nick, I'm not in the UK, but Australia. I made one here, and used 20mm solid. Here we call it bright steel. Mine works great at 500mm wide, no wobble or bounce. If I remember, the 1" rod was an upgrade to the original, and was due to the relatively high cost of the blocks......

Given that we share a more common english, try a metal fabrication shop and see if they carry bright steel, or simply explain what you want and they'll tell you what it's called in the UK.

As to Stainless, remember that it's a b!tch to drill. I drilled the shaft to lock the pulley(I used the timber self-made version) but not for the set screws in the blocks. I glued up the MDF rounds using plenty of polyurethane glue, and they're as solid as.....

You don't need to. Just tighten them well and you'll be fine.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

Cheers, Doug. Much obliged!

And, Nick, thanks for that, I figured 3/4" would still be a major upgrade over Pat's original. I won't have to make the pulley, so according to Doug, I won't need to drill stainless... I've seen bright mild steel listed (http://www.austenknapman.co.uk/mild-steel/bright-mild-steel-round) Is that right? Wouldn't it rust? Or is there bright stainless? I know nothing.

Sounds like the sander is working well for you, though, that's great news! A friend of mine is convinced it will wobble and won't be accurate.

Another quick questions if poss: Do I just use a 127mm hole saw to cut the discs out?

Mine works to about .2mm. I reckon that's good enough. I do stop about .4mm from where I want to be and switch to long, trued hardwood block's, and finish by hand.....

Thing is, by truing up the drum, and probably at regular intervals, Tho I haven't yet needed to, the wobble and bounce are self-corrected. I have also used velcro and fuzzy paper on mine, so there is a compression of the sanding surface, and slow feed, and repeated feeds at the same setting get me close.....

Beats a planer, and leaves a good enough surface at 120-180 grit that I leave the interior alone once off the sander....the exteriors, obviously, need more attention....

Since mine lives under the house in no particularly controlled environment, I sprayed the MDF with several coats of polyurethane(just cause I had a can sitting around) to seal it.....

Here's mine....

Nick, I made one of these sanders...seems to work very well. I rough cut the disks with a bandsaw, mounted them on the shaft, got them close to shape with a turning chisel and working it like a lathe, then flattened it with 100 grit sandpaper glued to a dead flat board.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

Thanks for the help, guys! I was hoping to get a bit closer to final thickness than 0.4mm but, still, that beats doing it all by hand!

I don't have access to a bandsaw. I do have a small jigsaw, but doing it that way doesn't sound much fun if I could just punch them out with a holesaw, 2mm oversized and ready for mounting and truing.

I'll make sure to seal the drum, too. I'm still wondering if the bright mild steel will rust in the garage but I'm a bit more clued up now.

Mine has a patina of surface rust, but at 3/4"-20mm, it ought to be good for a long time....I spray mine with WD40 every now and then to keep it as good as possible....After that, for $10AU and a bit of MDF, I'll just make a new drum if it goes south on me.....

How big are you planning to make the disks? I have had 5" hole saws, but not any longer. Mine was also bandsaw, lathe work and the truing board.......

I also find the 5" diameter gives me a nice finish for bridge ends. I like having the drum open, and tend to use mine for lots of stuff that probably isn't all that advisable, but I'm careful....

My drum was made from six inch PVC sewer-pipe with five particle-board discs glued to a 5/8 shaft and trued using 80 grit spray-glued to the bed.

Bob

That's good to know, I'll keep it sprayed with WD40.

And I hope to use it for bridge ends, too. Guess I'll have to work out what else I can use it for! Can't wait! Thicknessing stock last time was mind-numbing.

I was hoping to use the 5in (127mm) holesaw with a pilot bit, and then open up the pilot hole to 3/4". I figure, after truing, it won't be much less than 5 inches(?). The next size up is 140mm. I suppose I could use the jigsaw, just seems like a PITA compared with the holesaw.


And thanks, Bob, I can't quite visualise your one but it sounds interesting. Would you mind elaborating?

EDIT: Just thought: Can I order the shaft cut precisely to the size in the plans (659mm) or should I have it a bit longer, maybe an extra centimeter, in case of.... whatever?

Thanks!

I'm about to make one of these, too. For the shaft, search for 'bright round bar' on ebay. You can get a 25mm x 1m one for about £15 and the pillow blocks for about £6.

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Thanks, Peter, I'm actually just about to order it from a place that will cut it to size for about the same as the meter bar on eBay... http://www.austenknapman.co.uk/mild-steel/bright-mild-steel-round (I'm also getting some other stuff there so it works out better for me anyway)...

I'm just trying to decide what length to get it cut to. I don't suppose I have to worry too much, if I put it together right, a 670mm shaft should give me 11mm overhang, which I could cut off or leave without much of an issue hopefully(?). I just feel like I need someone to give me the go-ahead before I order!

Order it. Mine came in at 1300mm. Bit dodgy until I cut it to length, which i did by spinning it, and holding a hacksaw to the bar. Boy, the bit coming off took a real flight when it broke free....

I've also left both ends of mine equally long, about 150mm, for a couple ideas that I may or may not try...

Glad it didn't hit any part of me. Will be more careful next time....

Look for cold rolled steel................!!
Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Thanks, Tom, all sorted and ordered....

Nick, that sounds a bit hairy! Glad I've got mine cut to size. I went for 670mm, I suppose I could've left it longer and tried adding something in the future but the thickness sander is what I really need. Also got the bars for my go bar deck!

It sounds like we're doing exactly the same things - thickness sander and go bar deck! Where did you get your go-bars from?
I'll be making a router table too, that I might also use as a table saw with a skill saw mounted underneath. Still fitting the insulation to my workshop at the moment, though- way too dusty for my liking!

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Here's one I built with most spec's. Hope it helps.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38922&hilit=thickness+sander

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

Excellent work, Larry, thanks for that! Hope mine works as well.

And, Peter... SNAP! I shan't be making a router table just yet (though I do mount my router upside down for cutting binding channels), but the gobar deck and thickness sander just seem to be really wise investments (time and money-wise) to help build more quickly and efficiently!

Your workshop sounds like it's developing nicely! The dust is going to be a problem for me, especially when routing out the radius dishes! Need a mask.

http://www.sandpiperaerials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=7_28 <---- Fiberglass rods.

I emailed them for a price but they haven't replied. Another user on here is very pleased with the 30 bars he got for £22 inc delivery. If they don't reply tomorrow, I'll phone.

Took me a couple of weeks to start, but the thickness sander is nearly finished (thanks this community!).
I'll post pics when I've got 'er up and running.

I'm just about to order the sandpaper rolls and I wonder, firstly, if anyone could tell me if I need 80 (or even 60?)/120/180 or if I can get away with just two of those? And, secondly, whether these, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221264986573?var=520161352484, are suitable?

Or, if anyone in the UK has a good supplier for the right stuff, I'd appreciate a heads up!

Thanks in advance for any help!
Nick

I use 80 grit for quick stock removal and 120 grit for final thicknessing.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

Stay away from WD40...it dries out and clogs stuff up...so you spray more which dries out and so it goes on and on...use good old machine oil ...or oil less bearings.

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Thanks for the tip Padma!

Ok, I've had even more delays but the thickness sander is wired up and the drum is very close to true, will be perfect in 15 minutes tomorrow....

Once it is true, I'll probably try to seal the drum a bit before "installing" the velcro. I need to make sure the psa sticks to it but I was thinking of just wiping on some liberon finishing oil. I figure, I'm Trying to keep water out, what better than oil [liberon has varnishes in there too, it isn't just oil]? I have got a little MDF sealer but it is ancient and very thin, maybe that's normal... I've also got plenty poly glue left so I could thin that and seal the drum that way?

As always, I'm just trying to be sure before I commit. Thanks for any help!

Oh, and is there any reason not to give the frame a lick of yacht varnish? It's going to live in my garage.

(I'm giddy as a schoolkid to have it u and running and working nicely [so far]! Can't wait to put some rosewood under it! [Going to practice with some practice sides first])

I sealed mine with some heavy shellac.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something