Official Luthiers Forum!

I understand that dealing with people can be more difficult for some than others. Above all, don't panic. When you start getting anxious, slow down, breathe, relax. Remember, most interactions with people don't really have dire consequences anyway. Try to be as relaxed as possible, if you are anything like me, when you are nervous the things that come out of your mouth are not nearly as eloquent as when you are clam. In the business world that often is more off-putting that saying less or taking longer to make your point. You won't sound confident if you are panicking.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

IT can be very discouraging trying to make a living doing this. The only way I was able to eat and pay the bills was through repairs and some of those repairs turned into commissions down the road. I always have two or three guitars in my shop so that when people come by they can see and play them. After a year or so I sell them discounted and have a couple replacements. IT really helps to have examples of work that people can play. Also the music teacher thing was a good idea. I sold a guitar to a music teacher, and friend of mine, at a reasonable discount and have since gotten 3 builds out of that deal. If you have a local web community that can be a great place to start too. For example we have a local down town merchants organization and several local twitter and Facebook groups that get a lot of traffic. Also I can advertise my work on the local Craigs list. IF you are part of any other online communities, like for example I ride and race bicycles and am a member of several forums, these forums often have off topic sub forums and you can post something about your work. I sold two guitars that way.

You may want to check local schools too. I got a job once at a local school that wanted to bring back a guitar lesson class that they used to do. I got a contract to repair a room full of guitars. Probably 100 guitars that needed to be set up. And of course try to get in as the repair man for any local shops. I know that's a tough market to brake into. Typically they will take 20% of your work but if you get into a good shop or two it will really help you pay the bills.

+1 to what Bryan said. You really need to know your stuff, and have the answers before a client asks the questions. When you are asked a question, take a moment to form your answer in your mind, and give a clear and concise reply. If the client needs more info or they don't quite grasp what you are telling them, take your time and explain and maybe draw a picture or show them on a guitar.
If you can build a guitar to show, make sure it is as flawless as possible, and explain why your work has value over cheap, mass produced guitars. Work on your presentation, Tai, because you are selling yourself first, and guitars or services second.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

lots of gud ideas here

How does someone with Asperger's sell himself? I think my problem is I always try to sell the product or service but are hopeless when it comes to selling myself. In my experience I always manage to leave bad impression no matter what... this people thing is not only mysterious, it's scary.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Hi, Tai.

I have given this a lot of thought over the last couple of days, and I have some thoughts I'd like to share with you. First, some snippets from my own story, which will hopefully put my other thoughts into perspective. They are in no particular order of importance or chronology.

1. I played guitar for years before I started building them. People knew me as a guitar player and teacher. A musician friend of mine heard I was going to start building instruments, and ordered a mandolin. I have since completed and delivered that instrument, even though it ended up taking several years (I built a prototype in the meantime to make sure that I could build what he wanted. He requested some tweaks which I incorporated into the final product.) Several other people with whom I've played music and know well have requested or inquired about instruments since then.

My point is that relationships are more important than products. One has to see value in people for who they are, and not what they can spend on a guitar, or how they can contribute to a company's bottom line. Do you have a circle of friends that you regularly hang out with? They don't have to be musicians, and even if they were, they wouldn't be able to keep you in business, unless they are extremely large in number.

This will give you practice in developing relationships in a low-pressure context. It will also help your network, because Person 1 may know a guitar player or teacher that you may not know. That player/teacher may not need a guitar at the moment, but he might need some setups done that he doesn't have to the time or expertise to accomplish.

You might consider learning to play an instrument, especially the guitar, fairly proficiently. This will take many hours, most of them lonely ones spent with just your guitar, or your guitar and a book, or your guitar and a CD/DVD. This will not only help with making friends, it will help with your own instrument making, as it will help you identify with customers who are looking for "that sound" or "that feel", and it will help you demonstrate your guitars as well.


2. I have built a few commissions, and it has been enough to know that I do not want the pressure of doing lutherie for a job. It seems like a perfect way to ruin a wonderful hobby. Many people have asked if I would like to make a living at it, and I always tell them that I would rather keep it as a hobby. I do not have a website at all, any business cards, nor an official-looking email address.

My point is, have you considered doing something else to pay the bills, or to save up until you can do lutherie full-time, maybe in a different location? I figured the pressure of full-time lutherie was not for me. You have to make that decision for yourself. If your bills are looked after by your day job, the feeling of panic might be easier to disperse when it comes to selling a guitar or gaining a commission.


3. Some years ago it was time for me to change jobs, and I really wanted to become an electrician. I inquired at most of the local companies, but no one was hiring at that time, especially when I didn't have any experience. The next occupation on my list of interests was glazing (glass-work, not donuts), so I started applying at the local glass shops. The first one was only looking for someone to clean vehicles in the autoglass department, and I had my sights higher than that, so I moved on, and got a job at the next shop. I stayed there for two years, until I figured that I didn't want to do that for the rest of my life, and that I should get out while I could still afford to. I moved to a different city and started a new job, working there until it became clear that I was not able to make that a lifetime career choice, either. Through some contacts in my hometown, I was able to land a job as an electrician. I am enjoying my work, and even though it is not music-related, it pays the bills and supports my family, in addition to offering some career advances. It's been over ten years since I first wanted to get into electrical, but I've learned some valuable things in the meantime.

My point is, sometimes you just have to wait. I'm in a position now where I am supporting a family of five on a starting wage, and there isn't much left over at the end of the month, but we do what we can and learn to enjoy the little things in life. I'm waiting to be able to go to school, waiting for a wage increase, waiting to move out of the barely adequate mobile home we're living in, and waiting for the day when I have guitar-building facilities again. Don't feel sorry for me, I say this to prove that I'm practicing what I'm preaching.

Many people will not have the patience to read what I just wrote, so here is the digest version:

1. Learn to connect with people separate from guitar-building. Some years ago, I read, "You start by building for friends, then friends of friends..." This has been true in my case. No pun intended.

2. Keep your horizons wide, and your options open. Maybe night school would prepare you for a position that you would do well in, and enjoy, while you do lutherie part-time.

3. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. If that something isn't working, try something else. Life's too short to beat your head against a wall.


Tai, after re-reading this, my words seem cold and distant. I wish we could be in the same room so that you could see my eyes and my smile. I feel for you because my brother has Asperger's, and he has had many challenges that I have not had to face. I'm not going to lie, it takes courage.

When you left Texas, did you leave a foot in the door to get back into North America? Would you even want to?

Best regards,
Lincoln

I don't know what else I'd do in Taiwan. The only thing that I could realistically do (given my background) is work minimum wage jobs (which can't support even a spartan lifestyle in Taiwan, it's very low) and work so much hours that all you want to do is sleep afterward, no time for building social networks. It's either that or I can go teach English, which is not something I want to do (because of Asperger's) and it comes with a bit of racial discrimination, in that they strongly favor those with white skins, blond hair, and blue eyes. I started doing luthiery as a job because my pastor encouraged me to do it. He said he saw my gift and believed that it's what God wanted me to do, and in all of honesty it's not something I thought of doing (but wanted to) because I felt there was no market for the stuff in Taiwan. Everything else that paid real wages requires exams in Chinese, and I cannot write in Chinese at all. The exams are hard too because it's meant for chinese speakers, and I don't get any leeway simply because I was educated in Texas. I took one (to get government jobs) and got a 2 out of 100 in the chinese test...

I get more free time doing luthiery and get paid real wages... most jobs in Taiwan pays 3 dollars an hour IF the boss is in a good mood (if he's not, you get nothing for all the overtime you have to put in) but cost of living isn't really that much lower than the US. The government doesn't really care because he might get a fine of 300 dollars for stealing 1000 dollars worth of work from you.

Unfortunately there's no possible way I know of to go back to Texas but I have been wanting to for so long.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com