Official Luthiers Forum!

The one thing that makes me nuts about building part time is I can never remember how I did (insert task here) the last time I did it. For me there's simply too much time between tasks to remember. For example I'm a couple necks into carving them from scratch and so I built a jig to clamp the neck in so I could carve it. Created all the 15 degree angled areas to clamp the head stock to sized and shaped everything to hold the neck just right and began carving. I was pleased as punch and it went really smooth.

The next neck is due to be carved and I'm all happy that I've invested the time and effort to build my jig and I pick up this piece of wood (the jig) that looks like it came from another planet. I'm looking at it and can't make heads or tails out what I should do next. Did I clamp it here? No wait it goes around this way. The neck goes here? Of course I eventually figure it out it took a while and there's so many other processes that I simply forget how I did them as they're so long between completing.

Same thing last night. I do this Yin Yang shaped sound port and I have a jig that I use to copy the shape and I remember how smooth it went last time because I discovered a pretty quick way to complete them. Well of course last night I'm looking at that shape and can't for the life of remember what I did the time before as it was 3 -4 weeks ago. I figured it out, again, but have no idea if that's the way I did it before.

Then there's a finishing schedule - don't even get me started.

I always get the job done and should be happy that I can rediscover a method that works but it makes me a bit nuts.

I'm not an idiot and have done many many repetitive jobs where I've discovered great and efficient systems to complete them but there's so much time, and an entirely other real life, between guitar building tasks I simply can't remember what I did the last time.

What do you all do to remember systems and techniques?

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

Wrote a book.

_________________
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I can sympathise - I've picked up jigs and wondered what on earth is that for!
Some suggestions of ways I've used:-
Keep a notebook to hand at the bench (e.g weights, thickness, deflection, finish schedules, general impressions etc.) for each guitar and take the time to use it. (Also useful for flashes of inspiration, e.g. I know how I can do that! - ideas which you can't remember later)
Label and write short "obvious" instructions on the jigs in permanent marker as reminders (up/down/clamp here/adjust/shim-3mm etc).
Take photos of jigs in action.
OR
Hire a secretary.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

REALLY funny Trevor!!

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

I like Trevor's answer.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

_________________
Under Compensated Nut!

I take lots of pictures, from lots of different angles, especially for difficult clamp jobs. Once I figured that out, life got a little better.

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Pictures sound good and I have diary for dimensions but not for processes - oh wait I guess now I have a diary for both. Still chuckling Trevor.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

1. Lots of photos along with an old computer in the shop to view them.
2. Notes in a permanently bound book.
3. Use a Sharpie and write notes directly on jigs and cauls.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

It gets much worse as the number of different models increase. I think I'm up to 12 now with 4 different types of Neck joints, 6 different types of head V joints. Doesn't help having a small workspace and nowhere near enough shelving/drawer cabinets. I'm seriously thinking of downsizing, in terms of models.
Technology might be the answer. Tablet/slate in the workshop and plenty of notes/pictures.

I'm in your boat, Larry. So far it seems to take me about a year to build a guitar. I keep notes, take photos, etc., but I still have to stop and think very carefully before I execute any steps. In the end, a slow, considered approach helps reduce my "Doofus of The Month" moments and provides more shop time for my money, so I try to embrace the snail's pace.

_________________
George :-)

I feel your pain. For me, there is even more time between tasks (sometimes more than a year) and I often rediscover my methods on the fly in a series of "oh yea" moments. Sometimes I forget a new approach altogether. I should be keeping notes, but then it starts to feel like work and I'm trying to relax.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

i seem to find that with every guitar i seem to toss out some of the older tooling and as my methods refine new and better tooling seems to crop up. a couple of the old designs were winners though and i keep them, but for the most part i'm always changing. one thing that has eliminated a great deal of bric-a-brac for me though is my table top mill.

when i started out i was designing in solidworks, and taking notes. now i don't bother. i'd rather create then document -soon to be my downfall for sure. when i achieve global market supremacy i'll just hire people to take notes for me.

As the Quakers say, 'That friend speaks my mind'... Been there, done that so many times!!

_________________
Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

I have the same problem.
That's why I take lots of pictures and keep a blog.
One thing that does help is to visualise what you will be doing next before actually doing.
It certainly helps to refresh the memory and iron potential issues.

_________________
-----
Sen CL Goh
http://senguitar.blogspot.com

I recognize what you are saying.
One of those new, cheap tablets ($100) could allow you to take a picture of each jig in operation or do build threads if you keep it in the shop as a journal. I can't even post pictures on the board so this is pie in the sky for me.

Bob

I've done several of these. Infrequently used jigs sometimes have the steps written right on them. Pics of weird setups/glueups etc (headstock "ears", neck extension etc.). A journal with noteworthy stuff on each build.
I also did an extensive step-by-step early on in excel, which I'm always fine tuning.

_________________
Dave
Milton, ON

Methinks Mr. Gore is a bit beyond a hobby builder.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

That's a great idea.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

I keep a point and shoot on a tripod, with a remote, in the shop and turn it on when I turn on the lights. I take 200-300 photos per build, edit and pare down after I leave the shop at night. I used iPhoto, and now Aperture, and type in a short caption. I usually end up with about 150 photos at the end of the build. That's on top of the notes and sketches I make of Chladni patters for tops and backs.

An unexpected, big benefit for me is that it forces me to slow down and concentrate more on the process than forging ahead to "git 'er done."

Pat

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

This is exactly what I was about to write. And I wish there was a "like" button for Trevor's post!

I'm an Aperture guy, too. For about five years now. The organization tools are just too good compared to everything else, including Lightroom (which I find to be a more effective editor). If anyone out there is mac based, I highly suggest giving it a try!

Anyway, I laughed when I read the OP. This happens to me all the time. I've basically started writing my own book/manual. What I do is take quick notes on each step as I think of them, make a document, print it, and stick it in the binder, updating it when anything changes. It's incredibly organized.

I used to take a ton of photos, but I'll be honest---I just get so sick of editing them all. I can't imagine how the professional builders out there get along with the customer's expectation of pics.

I'm just shy of 60 now and still look at my notes for most steps. It seems like I still find a few better ways to do things on every guitar. Another thing, label your jigs as to what they are for!! I frequently used to see a pretty cool jig in the drawer and have no idea what I made it for.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I tend to try to use jigs to help me with work. Every once in a while I will find a jig that I don't remember what it's purpose. Then to add insult to injury I can't even remember ever having it at all.
Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I don't build many "permanant" jigs, I do a lot of temporary jigs made from offcuts held together with clamps. The good thing is I don't have to store the jigs or remember what they're for. The bad thing is I do have to remember to adequately tighten the clamps.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

+1 on the like button for Trever's post!! But have to say I agree with poster who said he doesn't quite qualify for a hobby builder

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"