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I was dreaming guitars 2 or 3 weeks ago and just before sleep I had this amazing idea - I'll build a guitar with no waist on the bass side. Should be comfortable, shouldn't be harder to play and there will be that much more sound board to make sound with. Yes indeed the next great guitar shape was born. So I started construction and just got the sound hole cut and top on the box yesterday, thrilled with myself - then I saw this avatar from a forum member. (I PM'd the member a couple of days ago and haven't heard back so am posting here in the general forum.)



They say it's all been done and it looks like this shape is no exception, heck I was even going to ease the waist on my next build just like the guitar in this avatar. Sigh.

Anyway that brings me to my question. What is this shape called? Who gets credit for its creation? Any tips or links you might share about bracing, sound character etc.?

Thank you very much for any information you might share.

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I call it "the bean" haha.

..bean there done that huh?

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There was a builder at the last Guitar Foundation Convention that was pushing classicals shaped something like that.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

haha or I guess you could call it "the kidney"

Yeah I saw that design. I listened to a couple of clips and did not like what I heard but indeed very unique. I guess it was used on 'Stairway to Heaven?

I also agree, pretty ugly. I like the other design though and it feels very good in the hand. Just don't know anything about the design - sound character, bracing etc. Still very curious and there's one on my bench right now so I'll post when it's complete and you can make fun of it.

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Did you play or hear them?

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The first music store I ever worked for in back in the 70's sold those Giannini's. If I remember correctly, they were made in Brazil. Build quality was OK, but we had quite a few guitars come back for cracks and twisted necks. The nylon string "classicals" had an odd tone, but the six string models were quite usable. The twelve strings were either muddy, or brightly clanging - not usable at all.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

If I remember correctly there is a little About the Autor section in 'Guitar Electronics For Musicians' by Donald Brosnac (SP?) that has a picture of him and some of his guitars in the back ground and one of them looks like that. From the look of the hair and the bell bottom jeans I'd say it was in the 70's.

I've always thought these things looked like little piggies from the side. Cute!

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I have this idea that the waist provides a sort of choking or venturi effect on the soundwave as it moves between the the lower and upper bout. It's conjecture on my part, but I think there's something happening there, and the small-waist L-00 and my own Opus "L-000" have something in common in their sound. I'm just not sure what it is. The design in Larry's post would seem to have a much-reduced choke at the waist, more in the direction of a dreadnought. Hmmm.... more to think about.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Sorry, I just now saw your message.

I like building wild things, so I decided to attempt a multi-scale, headless, bolt-on 8 string acoustic with offset sound hole and carbon fiber instead of truss rod. I just kept drawing shapes on paper and that shape stood out, so I did it. I guess I don't worry too much about if something has been built before since I build these contraptions for myself.

The shape is a little uncomfortable, if I did it again, I would put some kind of cutaway there to compensate.
This guitar was a learning experience, it is a failure in many ways. I can go into that more if you're interested.

I reluctantly offer this video. Reluctant because I have had a year of lessons with a real luthier, and now realize I did not know what I was doing when I built this.

This will seem horrible, but I don't intend it that way.
Your 8 string sounds much better than I thought it would.

Would you mind explaining your tuning system, and why you chose it over a traditional peghead?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Didn't play one, but heard it. Sounded like a guitar. Not much different from any other guitar that I could hear. Certainly not exceptional at all. Those who played it seemed to think it was not very comfortable to hold. However, it has a lot to do with what you are used to playing, I bet.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

It was Tip House, he was at the table behind me. I wouldn't say he was "pushing it", I think it was just an experiment.

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Matt Jacobs

"Don't tase me bro"

Thanks. What you are hearing is a mix of SM57 and a piezo mounted inside under the bridge. The bass frequencies are weak in reality, I boosted them on the recording.


Sure, 6 normally tuned strings, then two more on the bottom, each a fourth down.
Starting with thickest string: f# b e a d g b e


Well, we all have different personality configurations. And one of the main parameters you can measure is where a person is on the spectrum between tradition / safety and novelty / exploration. (Measure of few of these and you can predict a person's political orientation - see the TED talk on the Roots of Political Orientation). I lean toward exploration in my musical instrument tastes, probably due to having been around instruments all my life, and feeling like I have seen it all.

So I thought it might be cool and different to have a headless acoustic.
Of course, varying from the traditional designs greatly increases the odds of failure, and means solving problems you wouldn't ordinarily have to solve. But I build to satisfy my curiosity, not to sell.

I have joked that, they said it couldn't be done, so I did it.
Later I realized they were saying, it shouldn't be done !

Hey thanks for posting that video and appreciate the info on your design.. I think the guitar sounds really good - unique to my ears, which is always a good thing these days. LOVE your sense of exploration and willingness to complete an idea that "shouldn't be done." I'll post a couple of pics of the box I've completed so far in case anyone is curious.

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Here's what I've got so far. It's Walnut/Redwood/Pauduk bridge plate and will be a 12 fretter with bloodwood bridge/bindings/fretboard.

Probably obvious but the treble side bout is the same as any guitar with the bass side changed up as shown. This guitar starts out pretty small - 13.25" LB and 9.25" UB and will have another standard guitar of the same size (different top wood) to compare at least a little bit

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Since I've yet to see anyone mention it, Manuel Contreras built a couple of guitars with this idea in mind, he called it the Carlevaro model,
since the idea was mostly developped by Abel Carlevaro if I remember correctly.
Although it is not only the shape that is unique to the guitar, it is the thing that stands out the most.

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Not much but at least it exists : http://jbluthier.com/

Interesting Joel. I googled the Carlevaro Model and came up with a few videos featuring that guitar model. They sounded great. Lots of bass it seemed and all classical guitars. Can't say how this design will perform but am excited to find out.

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That was a poor choice of words. I should be more careful. Hi Matt.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I have examined and played a Contreras Carlevaro guitar. A friend, who studied with Carlevaro, played a Contreras Carlevaro guitar for a few years and tried to make it work in a concert setting. Besides the odd shape, there was no soundhole. There was a gap around the entire edge of the soundboard that was intended to act as a soundhole. The soundboard was anchored to the body by a number of brackets, the exact number of which I can't recall. My friend wound up stuffing backer rod (the gray extruded plastic sometimes called caulk extender) in about 80% of this gap in an effort to get some bass out of this beast. After fighting a valiant fight to honor his teacher, he finally threw in the towel and went with a conventional guitar.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Larry,
Your project looks really good. Braced much better than mine, I hope you post more pics as you continue.

Once feature I think a lot about it having a round back like an Ovation, only instead of being shaped like a bubble, it has a concave section to accommodate my stomach, for better comfort. So a paper mache or fiberglass experiment is on my list of things to try.

I'll update occasionally but probably not much until it's complete as most of the design work has been completed. Now I just need to get the neck done, bound and finish but I can never guess how long that might take as life usually gets in the way.

Do you have any pics of the braving scheme you used? And you mentioned it was a failure but it seems to play pretty well. Could you elaborate? Wood types etc?

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I have a 'Craviola' by Gianinni and it's been a go to instrument for me for a long time along with my Larrivee rosewood OM.
Like all factory guitars, if you get a good one, they're really good. But most are very average.

Brent