Official Luthiers Forum!

I have never posted one of my guitars on here, but I thought I would post this one. This is nothing fancy, just a simple, all wood guitar that I built for myself. Bocote back and sides, sinker redwood top, honduran rosewood binding, sinker redwood bracing..
The reason for posting this guitar is mainly to show the finish I used, which is tung oil. I have seen quite a bit of discussion about new finish sources, ect on here and wanted to show this as an option for an all botanical, environmentally friendly finish. I have used Sutherland Welles products almost exclusively for my guitars for several years now. Having bad allergic reactions to many finish products, I looked for a product without the harmful chemicals found in most laquers, varnishes, ect, and started using this stuff, and let me tell you, it is great. The solvent used in these products is made from distilled citrus peels, and it smells like fresh oranges! You dont even need to wear a respirator. Other than the "green" reasons for using this tung oil, the tone of an instrument is barely affected by it. It is also by far the easiest way to finish an instrument, so beginners as well as veteran builders LOVE it. You wipe a coat on with a cotton rag, wait 10 minutes, wipe off the excess, wait 24 hours, repeat. I used about 6-7 coats on this guitar. If you want a higher gloss you can even buff it out on an electric buffer.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Ok I'm curious. How well does it "patch up". Say you get a scratch and go back and fix the area and reapply the finish, does it blend good. Like a lacquer burns in? Or would you have to sand off and refinish the entire surface? Also do you use any filler or do you leave the pores for that "natural" look

It is the easiest finish to repair, PERIOD. You just wipe on, wipe off, repeat. This product has a "loc-lamin" system that guarantees that multiple coats, even years down the road, will be permanently, molecularly bonded. As for pore filling, I mainly use this tung oil finish on close-pored woods, and do not use any fillers. What the company reccomends for pore filling with this product is to "wet sand" with the tung oil and build up a slurry of the oil and wood dust to fill pores, although I have not tryed that out for myself. For woods with larger pores, I use another product from Sutherland Welles called Uralkyd 500 finish, which is more of a varnish. For this I have always used zpoxy as a filler/base. The Uralkyd 500 finish also is made with the distilled citrus peels as the solvent. You can brush or spray it. The dry time between coats is approx 10-12 hours, but one coat of it builds about the same as 5-6 coats of nitro laquer.. It is super clear, hard, flexible, will never delaminate, and is also easy to repair. It will never "check" like laquer does either. You can finish a guitar with 4-5 coats, instead of 10+ coats of laquer. I get about 3-4 guitars finished per quart.
The U500 sands out beautifully, and is completly cured and ready to buff in about 8-9 days, instead of 3-4 weeks with laquer.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Very interesting, very interesting indeed. I just realized who you are, so next time I get a good bargain on some of your tone wood I may have to give this finish a shot. Thanks for the info.

Yes, Sir!

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Nice build. I always wondered about Bocote as a B/S material. Looks great.

Side note on the finish. I'm waiting for some Poly Whey water base finish but they can't ship from Vermont till Monday at the earliest - too cold for water based. So I picked up some Uralkyd 500 locally and just put the first coat on over Z-poxy. Very impressed with the workability and initial clarity but that's all I can comment on at this time as there's still only one wet coat on so far - but thanks for the tip I'll post when the guitars are finished with my experience.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

Is the finish you used the "botanical polymerized tung oil"? looks nice, I really like the look of bocote, but so far have only made a small box as a gift out of the stuff.

thanks for posting, I always like hearing of different finishes as so far thats the weakest part of my builds. Practice will hopefully make perfect

Hi, yes it is the botanical polymerized tung oil, high lustre.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Thanks, I really like bocote, it is alot like cocobolo in tone, but maybe a bit brighter. I'd like to hear what you think about the finished result you get with the U500. BTW, I am a dealer for all S.W. products, so if you need more let me know

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

I put a second coat of Uralkoyd 500 on the guitar and perhaps didn't wait long enough between coats (5 hours??). It was hard enough to sand and didn't clog the paper but on the top, over shellac, and over a first coat, the second coat bubbled and gurgled pretty badly in a few spots. Back and side were OK over Z-poxy and the whole top was not affected. I'll sand off and try again and will wait 8 - 10 hours before re-coating and see if that's the problem.

I don't want this to be any kind of definitive review of the product as my finishing skills are very poor and 'user error' is my middle name - but wanted to post to add to the knowledge base.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

Yeah.. you have to wait at least 10 hours before recoating.. even if it feels dry to the touch. What happens is that moisture gets trapped between your finish layers. Give it enough dry time and you'll have no problems with it.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Okay, so I'm building my first guitar and starting to think seriously about my finishing options. Initially, I had planned to try my hand at French Polish...but I'm daunted by the process to say the least. This product might be what I need.

Question for the OP or anyone who's used this product...

The guitar I'm building has a white spruce top, and I'd like to keep it as bright and white as I can. Does this product have an "ambering" effect on spruce? It certainly looks fantastic on the darker-colored woods that I've seen. But what would it look like on a "white" wood like maple or spruce?

Very nice. For those of us who no longer have a shop / garage, and do it in the bathroom, this sounds like a great option.

Aaron, so you just wipe on/off, 6-7 coats....1 every 24 hours and that is it, you did no sanding, buffing, etc? How durable is this finish?

By the way, I'm in Dahlonega, noticed you are in Chatsworth, we're close enough for a visit some time.

_________________
Gwaltney Guitars

Greg, we have a mutual friend, Brad Baetz. He asked me if I knew you and I told him no, but that I had seen your website and was interested in meeting you.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

The tung oil will darken the white spruce a bit, it will make it sort of a light honey color. No matter what you finish the top with, though, it will eventually turn honey colored anyhow.. You could always french polish the top with blonde shellac and finish your back and sides with the tung oil.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Hi Greg, after the last coat, I let it cure for about a week, then lightly buff with OOOO steel wool. Then, I buffed the finish out on my buffer with fine, then extra fine compounds. You can actually wet sand the tung oil finish, just like a laquer finish, up to 1000 grit or so before buffing, but I think it looks good with just a once over with the steel wool first. this is a VERY durable finish. It will never check, craze, or delaminate. If you ever need to repair a scratch, you just wipe on, wipe off! Nothing is easier to repair.
Yeah, you're just over the mountains from me! Dahlonega is just about a 1 1/2 hour drive.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

I should add that you don't NEED to buff this finish out, it actually has a very nice sheen by itself. If your last coat is nice and even, you can leave it at that with no buffing required. Another BIG plus is that if you finish your soundboards with the tung oil, you can glue your bridge on before finishing. When I first started building, one of the most daunting tasks was to scrape the laquer off of the top where the bridge was to be glued. Just another plus in my book.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Aaron, how long have you been using this finish? What kind of issues have you had to date? How hard is it compared to the poly's used today on guitars? You mentioned it was "clear" does it have some tint/ambering effect?

_________________
Gwaltney Guitars

I'll probably go ahead and buy some from your Ebay site. I've got a bass that I'm refinishing. Might try it on that. I've got it stained with Watco Danish Oil. Would this tung oil be okay to put over that??

Hmmm. Very interesting. I may just have to give this product a shot. I do plan to eventually go to nitro once my spraybooth is done, but that's turning out to be a long term project...

Beautiful guitar, too, Aaron. I have a killer set of bocote I was thinking of using on my next spec build. Actually have a couple of amazing curly sinker redwood tops I can't wait to build with as well. You're happy with that combo, tonally?

Ken

_________________
Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

It should work fine over the Watco, as long as it is cured completly.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

The Bocote/sinker redwood combo is great. I used sinker redwood for the bracing on the top and back as well, I think that made it even better. If you like the look of nitro, but dont like the hassle of needing the ventilation hardware, give the Uralkyd 500 finish a try, it is better than any resin finish out there. Here is the link to it in my ebay store http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guitar-Luthier- ... 3a7d6e74ab There is some info in my description.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

I started using this stuff over 10 years ago. I owned a wide plank wood flooring company and used the tung oil for finishing flooring, then one day I tried it out on a guitar that I was building and really liked it. Then I started using another finish Sutherland Welles made called Uralkyd 500 gloss, which is a resin based finish, and LOVE IT. It is much harder than any urethane out there, and it doesn't degrade like many urethanes do (yellowing, cracking, delaminating) and it stays nice and clear. Depending on what look I am going for, I use these two finishes exclusively, unless my client insists on something else. To tell you the truth, though, you really cant tell any difference between the U500 and nitro laquer!
I have had absolutley no negative experience with either of these products, which is why I became Sutherland Welles dealer exclusively for stringed instrument applications. If you were to call them up to order some, they would send you to me

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Just another thing to mention is that if you want a wiping VARNISH, you can mix the Uralkyd 500 with the tung oil at a ratio of 3 parts U500 to 1 part tung oil.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies