Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm still interested in the Metabo 3", it looks like a nice little machine. But I am not sure it is compatible with standard sanding disks - I need to check it out some more.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I have a 6" Festool, not the right angle Rotex, but still a completely different machine than the 5". It's a good sander but too big for sanding acoustic guitar sides.

I played with a Mirka Ceros at my local Woodcraft and at Woodwerks (the other local boutique) & liked it a lot.

I don't need another sander, but I'm lusting for the Ceros.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I use this one all of the time, I only wish they had the same design in a three inch pad

http://www.portercable.com/products/Pro ... ctID=17121

Mike

Btw, can anybody recommend a three inch electric ROS? I could probably do pneumatic... But I prefer electric

The only electric 3" ROS I've seen so far is the Metabo.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I have been using the Ceros for a couple of years, and its great. Got it mainly for finish sanding, but it works equally well on wood. Dust control is much better than any other system I'm aware of, which is very important for me.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

For $500, you can buy a Dynabrade and put a couple hundred dollars toward a bigger compressor that will run it.

A Festool is nice, but there's no comparison to my Dynabrade.

I like Dynabrades but I don't have room for a bigger compressor in my small shop; if I did I would already have one.

Arnt, sounds like you are using the Ceros to do some of the finish sanding on your guitars? If so do you find you're able to minimize the amount of hand sanding you do?

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If you have the cash to spend, without a doubt get the ceros, I like the 6" but the 5 is good to.

I use dynabrades all the time at work and the ceros in operation is virtually the same. Light, very low on vibrations, and efficient. In my opinion there is no other electric sander that even compares the the ceros. All of them will get the job done... But the ceros will be a pleasure to use. Hooked up to a vac you will have very little dust.

Joel.

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http://Michaudmade.com

I sand on a downdraft table with a 7" duct directly into a cyclone dust collector so, fortunately, the dust is not a problem. I have also used pneumatic sanders and it's great to know that the Ceros is comparable.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

For finish sanding (nitro) I only use it for 800 (sometimes) and 1000 grit, before buffing (coarse, medium, etc). I like to level by hand, with a hard backing block, either from 800, or sometimes 600 if my last coat was not really smooth. My spray booth used to be in a non-insulated room in a garage, so the spraying results would vary somewhat with the elements. I now have a much better, heated and humidity etc controlled finishing room, so that is all history, or so one can hope... Anyways, the firmer your sanding block, the more level your surface, but it comes with the danger of scratches from "lumps" of finish material loading the abrasive. The Ceros can sand nitro with the 1000 and 1200 mesh pads with, something I've never been able to do with a more conventional sander, so it does save me some sanding time.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I just looked up the Mirka CEROS and it looks pretty sweet. But its still just under $500! It had better be pretty darn impressive for me to pony up that much extra cash when there are so many other expenses that I need to deal with. If I had the money I would probably look at it very seriously.

At this price the CEROS is going head to head only with Festool.

For anyone who cannot go to this price category, Bosch really seems to stand out as a clear choice. The ROS20VSK is 5" and variable speed . At $69US it is really tough to beat! I do a LOT of sanding and I have really been impressed by this sander. Vibration is nominal, directional control is very good, easy to hold, and connects directly to a shopvac.

For the price difference, Mirka and Festool would have to be a LOT better than the Bosch for me to lay down the cash.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Have you considered doing away with sanders altogether? With the carpal tunnel issues, it would seem to be the best choice, no?

A good selection of sanding blocks to fit your hand(s) would help, too. You can make them from hardwood scraps, in whatever shapes and with and without handle(s). Make them with a system to hold the abrasive, similar to a electric sander, and make some with either a 5 or 6 inch round base to accept PSA or hook&loop discs, etc....

To minimize further wear and tear on your wrist(s), take note of how you sand. Make a video of yourself if you can, then study it. I bet you use more "wrist" than necessary, as most of us do, and would do well to adopt a more wrist-friendly technique, where your wrist(s) remain more or less 'locked' and you instead allow your shoulder and elbow to be the only pivot points. Think of sanding in the exact same manner as you use a plane, because if done correctly, that is what you're doing; abrasive planing.

And become one with your scrapers. Yes, plural.

I took-on a high-school co-op student last winter, and one of the first things he asked when I was showing him around the shop was "where's all the sandpaper?" If we don't count the finish leveling(which can all be done by hand, easily), in the 3 months he was here, I don't think we used a full sheet of sandpaper....

I like having a vac hooked up to my sander because it sucks all the dust off the wood so scratches show up easily. No need to stop and brush off the dust before looking for scratches. Saves time, along with catching the dust directly at the source.

The Metabo 3" 6 hole disks are different than the 3.5" 7 hole disks that the festool ro90 uses. The disks from metabo are good quality and reasonably priced, but I have to order them because there is nobody around here that stocks that size. There are several local sources for the 7hole disks.

The festool didn't exist when I got mine and as nice as the metabo is I can't see spending 4x the amount for the festool.

-jd

Mario, good common sense comments, as usual.

I'm part way there in that I have a whole box of sanding blocks made of wood, erasers, rubber, and felt. I use em too. I also use scrapers of various sizes from single-edge razors on up. The Carruth scrapers are the latest addition to my scraper arsenal and I really like them. Much easier on the hands.

As far as Carpel Tunnel and wrist positioning, I spent every night for a year in braces so I'm reasonably attuned to keeping things in a good position. Playing guitar is usually the thing that causes the most flare-ups - oh well, if it gets too bad I will have surgery, I'm not going to quit playing if I can help it.

As far as what I use the sander for, in general only 2 things. Ever since my furniture building days I always sand all of my parts to 220 before assembly - just makes final finishing so much easier. And then just before finishing I like to sand everything to 220 to get everything as level as possible before I start shooting.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If it's $500 or possibly your wrists, I don't now how much doctors cost in Tennessee, but.......

Anybody have an opinion on the 5" or 6" Mirka for guitars? I got the 6" Fes because it was supposed to be a better machine.

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Pat

My PC 390K is 5" and it is surprisingly agile when working the sides. I think a 6" would tend to be too much for guitar work (though I'm sure others would disagree). I'll know companies like Ceros are becoming enlightened when they finally come up with models that allow you to swap pad sizes. I know I could use a 3". So any of you Metabo users have any comments? Looks like a reasonbly priced tool.

So what about the Festool RO 90 Rotex? It's a 3 1/2" unit.

http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/sanders/ROTEX-ro-90-dx-multi-mode-sander-571823

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If I could use a 5" pad with it, that would be the cat's meow

I believe it's hook and loop so maybe you could?

Edit: I noticed you said pad not paper -

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

You can't always just swap pad sizes as the sanders are counter-weighted for the specific size pad. However, if you have the appropriate counterweights then you can swap out the pad.

I've used both 5" and 6". 6" is better on big jobs. 5" is plenty for guitar work. I'd also consider variable speed and orbit size ratios. Smaller orbits may take a little longer but the sander will be more controllable and fit into tighter corners. Coupled with the variable speed you can get your desired results.

_________________
Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

As far as what I use the sander for, in general only 2 things. Ever since my furniture building days I always sand all of my parts to 220 before assembly - just makes final finishing so much easier. And then just before finishing I like to sand everything to 220 to get everything as level as possible before I start shooting.


Hmmm, sounds like you don't need enough air flow/capacity to sand for hours on end, right?

Have you considered adding a second, large air tank to your compressor? Like you, I don't have a large compressor(a 30 year old 2HP/20 gallon unit), and don't have the extra space for one much larger. I've considered adding a 40 or 60 gallon tank, that could be placed anywhere in the shop(I would even consider hanging it from the ceiling, up and out of the way) , if I ever decided to switch to air tools. The secondary tank need not be in use at all times, either. Only when you'll be using a tool that requires a lot of CFM. Sure, the compressor will not be able to keep up, but you should be able to get all, or most, of your sanding done before needing a break to allow the compressor to catch back up.

Just offering more alternatives... As someone has already mentioned, for under $500 you can get a Dynabrade or two plus the secondary tank(which can be had for free(old water heaters, well tanks, etc... if you're handy at salvaging...) and still pocket some change.

Good point. I was just down there level sanding - I'm using a new gun and haven't got it figured out yet so had a bunch of orange peel to knock down. I was using the sander and noticed I use it for no more than 30 seconds, usually more like 5 or 10. I just try to knock down the big parts and then put it down and grab a sanding block, felt or an eraser in this case. Might be worth trying to get hold of a Dynabrade to see how long it will run off of my compressor before I have to sit it down. Adding a tank would be easy to do but would also increase the recovery time. Food for thought.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm with the guys that are suggesting Dynabrade. 15 years ago I worked in a cabinet shop and some days spent hours using one on drawer fronts and that kind of thing. Never once did I end the day with a sore or tired wrist. I haven't checked, but imagine that they have improved even further since then.

Here at home I have a 5" Bosch and compared to the Dynabrade, this thing makes me spin in little circles. I'm sure I was spoiled by good equipment, because I can't be bothered to use the Bosch.

If you've got the space and money and a downdraft table, get a Dynabrade.