Official Luthiers Forum!

My client is a jazz guitarist and wants this one to be an uncompromised acoustic instrument, so that's what we're doing. No cutaway, no magnetic pickups, no nothin'... <g> He's not even sure if he'll want any kind of pickup or transducer at all, though I think a simple K&K system would be fine, and provide some sound reinforcement in situations where a mic won't quite be enough, so I'll likely install one before it leaves here.

So for me, the arching and graduations, as well as the tonewoods themselves, are of the utmost importance. A pretty tall order for a luthier who's never done an archtop guitar at all... I'm relying on my mandolin experience and intuition to guide me along on this one!

You'll get it Mario, I have the utmost confidence in your ability. That sounds cool. Let me know if you need help finding the eastern maple although somehow I think you got that covered.

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Ken

I will post it in the thread because it is relevant now.
Tom Bartlett has thick binding that is correct for vintage Gibson guitars. It is called Royalite material which is a type of ABS. It is expensive though because it is the correct vintage stuff that Les Paul replicators want. You will have to ask for Tom to cut it thick for you. You will only need one strip that is thick.
http://www.bartlettwoodworking.com/body/binding.html

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Ken

Hey, Filippo,
Yes, that is exactly the sort of fixed router set-up I was envisioning. It appears that you move the guitar body against a stationary router, and that's also one of the solutions I envisioned. Thanks for showing me this. It's a real nice holding fixture.

As for plate thicknessing and graduations, bracing, etc., my hunch is that you will find them all over the map, so to speak. Many of these guitars (not all) came out of the custom shop. The only cross section photo of a sawn-in-half L-5 that I've ever seen happened to show one with tone bars, more or less parallel. But I'm sure there were some with x-braces. The plan referenced earlier in the thread shows a very stout ladder brace system which seems almost identical to that on my Epiphone zypher blues deluxe, which is sort of a knock-off of an E-5, which was, itself, sort of a plywood version of the L-5. I have even read a description of a custom L-5 electric with the top UN-contoured and perfectly flat on the inside of the box. I doubt it sounded like most L-5s. And don't forget that our various archtop heroes play these axes through a variety of amps and with a variety of amp settings.

If you do eventually find some graduating info on a known Gibson L-5, I'm sure we'd all appreciate you sharing the information. Much good luck in your search. And, even if you have to wing it in the end, please build that axe!

Patrick

Must admit, I have not really been following his entire thread but a 1917 L-5 just landed on my repair bench. I would be happy to obtain any measurements you may need while it is here.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

First thing Brian...I'd love to see a pic.
That seems a bit early. Loar was at Gibson by '22 & my understanding was the "style 5 master" instruments (L5, K5 mandocello, F5) didn't appear 'till the 1924-25 catalogue. Apparently a 1917 Gibson instrument would have a serial # in the 32001 to 39500 range, if you can make it out (per http://www.guitarattic.com/Gibson%20Ser ... umbers.htm )

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Dave
Milton, ON

I first read the Serial as 35425. That would be consistent with 1917. I thought that sounded a bit early myself. I just got a nice pic of the label and the serial is actually 95425 so it's a 1937, that sounds a bit better. It's here from another shop, they did what they could do and sent it here for the rest. Love the string job they did......guess they thought I'd leave em there while I replace the binding and do the finish touch up. Almost put an eye out taking the pictures. I am gonna sneak it up to tension tomorrow and see how it sounds. They did the headstock repair, it came in with a broken peg head to them. Need to reglue the top to the sides in a few places but they do not want the cracks repaired.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Yeah, I thought '22 was the first year for the L-5. But man if it is a 16" f-hole box I would love nothing more than to see a set of dimensioned drawings of that guy.

I guess you replied while I was typing. '37 would be a 17" box but I would still be curious about how thick the top is in the center (if you have a way of measuring that) and at the f-hole. Is it parallel or x-braced?

I'd be willing to draw up the plans in CAD and publish them as a .pdf file, if someone can send me the measurements. I've already got a plan for a J-200 that I measured from a 70's Ibanez copy.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

What I could get for measurements right now
it is X braced
lower bout 16-13/16"
waist 10-3/8"
upper bout 12-1/2"
body length 21-1/8"
scale 24-3/4"
rims 3-3/8
overall depth 4-1/8"
top is .170" average thickness at f holes, didn't have anything handy to get thickness out in the center but I'll get something when I start to work on it next week.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

man that thing is thrashed. what a shame.

Brian has a 16-inch (nominally) L-5 in his shop, while Filippo is looking for plans for a 50s-vintage, 17-inch L-5. Yo, brian, I am sure everyone here would love to know everything you can discover about that earlier model while it's in your shop. The same goes to any of you guys who happen to have a later model walk through your door.

Cheers to all,
Patrick

Gibson stopped making the 16" version in '34 so that one should have the same outline as what Filippo was looking for. Even so it would be great if somebody could draw a good set of plans off of it. There aren't any plans of an x-braced L-5 that I am aware of (16" or otherwise).

Hey Filippo, what measurements do you need? I could get a hold of the one I had pretty easily. You wouldn't want graduations off of that one but I could get whatever else you needed. I do have the long arch and the arches of the bouts and waist as well as the outline, binding details, f-hole shape etc... Let me know if that helps you any.

Thanks Brian for the pics & details. You've got some work ahead.
FWIW here's a pic of a 1925 L5 (snakehead, 16") in great shape. (Sorry Filippo, doesn't help you but there can never be too many L5 pics)

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Dave
Milton, ON

Filippo, check your website email for another photo.

We do have a laser scanner for our cnc and it is large enough to do an entire instrument and we have scanned many early instruments. The L-5 that we drew was not scanned but we would be willing to do so if someone has one in the Nashville, TN area.

Let us know.

Blessings,

Kevin

...is this them, on Amazon...? its L-5 CES plans...not sure what CES is

http://www.amazon.com/Gibson-L5ces-Arch ... B003UTI1GI

I do have a 3D model of an L5 if someone is interested.... Acoustic and electric versions...

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CNC is a tool, not cheating

Those are L-5 plans, alright, but I'm still not convinced that they show the standard bracing pattern. Perhaps they do. I'd like to find out. I have a plywood archtop with that bracing pattern. It's a real nice electric instrument but has almost no acoustic voice whatsoever. I really believe the sound we associate with most
L-5s comes as much from the top as from the electronics. I have a hunch that the early 50s versions were not over-braced. I'm guessing two fairly stout tone bars, slightly angled together toward the neck, but spaced to allow for the neck pickup routing. I'll be as eager to find out for sure as Filippo will be. "CES" is Gibson's acronym for "Cutaway Electric Spanish."

Filippo, have you asked Gibson how the early 50s models were braced? Or a vintage dealer like Gruhn? I'm sure someone knows for sure.
Patrick

from what i read, with the L-5, X-bracing was used briefly in the '30s.
theres a short Guitar Player article here from '84:
http://www.gruhn.com/articles/l-5.html

I'm pretty busy right now trying to get my Challange entry finished, but I'll be able to get started drawing in a week or two.
I'll compare the measurements Brian posted against what I have from the J-200.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

For those interested in hearing a superbly played solo on an L-5, I recommend this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJD-jdU6DTw

I had to learn how to use #%@*# iMovie to post it, so I hope someone likes it!

Carl Kress was a master of the chordal jazz solo, a style he helped create. There are some "tribute" covers of this tune on youtube (links are displayed to the side of the video) and they are worth hearing as well. The photo below shows Kress (left) with Dick McDonough.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

Here's one for the "archtops just aren't very versatile" crowd. It's true he's no Esteban. But then who is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJYLfBMPuic

It's '32 L-5