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Hello all,i'd like to try a hand rubbed sunburst using alcohol based dyes under french polish is this possible or would the french polish disolve the dye resulting in a one colour mess.Allso i plan to use maple binding and marquetry purfling and rosette, if i mask these would the dye still bleed into them, i should add that i don't have spray equipment.I know i could use water based dyes but i don't like the idea of putting water on a spruce top.Thanks for any help.Roby

There would likely be some creep under the tape, try it on some scrap and see how bad it is. I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to polish in a burst in a FP and could not get a nice even look. I did not try staining or dying the wood first as you propose though. I personally don't like doing a decorative effect directly on bare wood. If it turns out poorly you are stuck with it, and it's time to paint it black.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

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Don't know how you would mask but I suspect you would be better off doing this in coloured Spirit varnish, probably brushed on. Then wear (abrasive) the areas progressively from one coat to the next. You may not end up with a typical sunburst but with practice it could be a pleasing effect. Kind of like a more controlled version of how Violin makers simulate varnish wear patterns.

If you are intend on applying stain or dye directly onto a spruce top, many have found the results blotchy.
I have tried this, still have recurring nightmares.....
Only after investing in some decent spray equipment was I able to get a decent burst by spraying color over a base coat.
YMMV...

Rob

Roby,

I really like a hand rubbed burst on maple and have done it several times. Never tried it on spruce, but I presume it would be doable, though masking would be a challenge. I think you would need to do a wash with water or perhaps alcohol first so the spruce would absorb the dye more evenly. And I just don't see a mask keeping the dyes out.

Regarding the alcohol from the shellac causing the dye to further run, I don't have a good answer. I don't French polish, so I don't know how much rubbing needs to be done with that first coat.

Ken

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I can say from my experience with hand polishing furniture that a good thing to do with the staining of softwoods like Spruce in to give it a glue size first.
Give it a quick wipe with water to see if any grain stands up , then a cut back with fine paper, Then mix HHG to a thin mix with warm water, like a teaspoon of glue for gluing timber mixed in an egg cup of water. wipe evenly on with a pad. when dry give a light cut back with fine paper. This layer of size will hold oil or spirit stains high and even. and much easier to remove if needed .

And hand rubbed colors within a shellac base work, you just need to build it up slowly .the color or dye is mixed with the alcohol and a little shellac added . the most accurate way to slowly change a color is done this way by french polishers using the pad, [ we call it a rubber down here , and I will leave it out here ] the dye has to be weak enough that with one or two passes over the timber, and letting each pass dry you are building up color , the small amount of shellac when dry holds it there so preceding wipes with the pad don't remove what you have put down. you get very accurate color changes this way . and I don't see why it wont work on a guitar top and sides.

That look from dark brown to nothing over four to five inches might take thirty to forty graduated layers.
I do it on my furniture but is a much more severe colour change on a guitar. should be possible though.
I will have to try it one day myself.

Rob

Thanks for the help all, i'm gonna have to do some tests on scrap as soon as i get some fresh shellac also i've emailed stewmac about colortone stains so i'll see what they come up with.Thanks again Roby

Just had a thought, how about purfling and binding after the top was stained,is this possible?

But you would probably have to level the binding/purfling, the danger being that it will cut into your Spruce.