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I guess it's true that behind every successful person there lies a pack of haters. So whether prevoking exactly this type of thought and dialog was his goal or he is simply giggling himself to sleep at night because of it I don't know but either way he has my utmost respect. For insight on his sense of humor you should read the piece he did in Guitarmaker on advertising if you haven't already.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Brian, It's too easy to use the term "haters" to describe someone who just disagrees with you.
And Somogyi, whatever his personal qualities and abilities as a luthier, is prone to making controversial statements, which many will disagree with.
It's not hating to disagree with someone rather than seeing him as a Guru.

My comment above was in concurrence with Chraliewood's observations about threads with his name as part if the discussion, and in reference to our society and it's attitudes toward successful people in general. I never said he was a guru, I said he promotes mysticism possibly to his own ends. If that makes him a guru so be it, there are much worse to learn from. Even if he were my guitar making guru I would not blindly believe every word he said without any real proof and perhaps that was the real lesson he meant to convey. FWIW I have worked with wood every day professionally for 30+ years and I think the whole idea of moon phase at harvest determining working properties of any piece of timber to be fairly absurd.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

This reminds me of the story shared by a logger a few years ago in the Guild. He had some customers who wanted only tops from the side of the tree facing the ocean. He always assured them that the tops he sold them did in fact come from the side of the tree facing the ocean... he just didn't say which ocean.

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

So, what's all this got to do with the rising price of beer, anyhow????

Important stuff, ya know....

mysterious ways...

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

A lunar phase or phase of the moon is the appearance of the illuminated (sunlit) portion of the Moon as seen by an observer, usually on Earth. The lunar phases change cyclically as the Moon orbits the Earth, according to the changing relative positions of the Earth, Moon, and Sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_phase

I am doubtful of a lot of the ideas Charlie had about the moon, but the idea that it is hollow is ridiculous.

why we never returned after spending billions and billions to get there in the first place is prolly the biggest mystery.... specially developed modules created to reach and land on the moon costing over a billion dollars sat rotting after the initial landing.... the soviets likewise abandoned all moon landing plans after the initial moon landing .... even though they had invested fortunes into reaching the moon surface - what did they find up there?

They found that there were no spruce trees.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Thought we went there just to abandon a couple of cars.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

And you haven't learned how to punctuate. Cool. Me too!

I don't have an opinion on "Moon Wood", except to say that Dr. Zurcher's journal articles in Nature grant it more credibility than a lot of what passes for science here. Silly? Okay. And where's the science that supports most of what we do?

For me, it comes down to the guitar. Some of the best professional athletes swear by their lucky underwear. Silly? Sure. Can you hit as many home runs as they do? If it works for them, is the coach questioning the science? I like to think that building a great guitar is just as magical as hitting a home run. Anything you can do to convince yourself that you can do it, is worth doing. You don't believe? It won't work. You believe? So what. Can you hit a home run? That's all that matters.

The me I see is the the me I'll be?

Good good. I was worried I'd have to work at this.

These mystic provisions will spare me derision since the axe I envision will convey precision.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

the more popular and better a person is, the more haters they will in general have...pretty decent rule of thumb there...

I think what this is really boiling down to is 'scientists' versus 'mystics'

scientists will try and quantify everything...making up mathematical formulas to find the magic bullet of instrument building...

mystics will roll bones, whatever to come up with a good sounding box...

yep..the above is pretty sarcastic...

the problem with science and lutherie is that most instruments are built out of organic materials...2 pieces of wood that have the same density, same deflection readings, etc. may very well sound totally different...so just how is that going to be quantified? at this point the scientist is going to have to add more and more variables into their formulas, and eventually probably have to end up using fourier transformation to get any 'real' answers...and at what point does this math end up becoming n-dimensional and 'visible' and 'solvable' to any but a very rare few?

what I get out of Somogyi is that he is an intelligent and gifted individual...let's face it, that hunk of grey matter between our ears is a very powerful super computer...using no math (records of density, deflection readings, etc.) a luthier can build a box using just their tactile senses..he/she hefts a piece of wood (sensing the mass), flexes it (sensing stiffness), taps it (hearing the tone and feeling the vibrations with the hand holding it), etc...makes a decision, and builds a box...after years of doing this their head (assuming the ability of that grey matter to operate) is able to spit out answers like "that's a good piece of wood for what I'm trying to build"...from Ervin's biography it would appear as if he has created his own path is his profession and it is more on the 'mystical' side of things...as opposed to offering up a bunch of formulas to explain his style, he is forced to use vague terms which are meant to push 'students' into an avenue of thought that uses their tactile senses...what I find difficult to wrap my head around is just what is 'mystical' about this?...people for years pressured him to write a book...so he finally did...I found them to be enjoyable and to give some great insight into what the Master views as important things in building a guitar...

moon wood?, not sure I give a flip...though since I have chosen to live in an infinite universe, where anything is possible (though many times not probable), I guess it's a concept worth at least listening to...

Nah...just poking fun at silliness and pretension....neither of which are easily spotted in the infinite universe.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Barry
They arent "my" ideas actually, but I read about a book about lunar anomolies written by an ex NASA scientist... mabye he went crazy - I dunno...(I could find his name if your interested) but I assume he is more qualified to speak on the matter than I .... thats for sure!
I am merely a relay of information in this instance - I am not saying that I believe one way or the other... that these are "certain" "true" statements... and that I adhere to them...in fact I could give a crap less.... I merely raised these points in relation to the statement that there were no Moon mysteries....
but they are questions raised by someone who has more knowledge than I could ever hope to have on the subject of the moon ..
I like a world that has mystery, rather than a world devoid of mystery... is all...
Cheers
charliewood

Sounds good Charlie.

I agree!

I'm calling BS. The gravitational effect on trees is null. The only effect it has is luminosity for growing at night in which is so minuscule it can not even be measured unless it doesn't rain for a study.

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久保
美智え

While at Woodstock the other week I stopped by to say hello to Ervin. While we were talking another gentleman came up and started asking questions about tonewood selections and so forth. Ervin then proceeded to give this fellow the rundown on the mysteries of tone and even brought up this subject and gave the entire story almost verbatim from the article. This guy was, as are we, rather skeptical. But as Ervin was quick to point out, while it defied logic, it could not be ruled out as a possibility.After all a bumble bee should not be able to fly.....after that discussion had passed and the gentleman walked away I prodded a bit on the topic as I had remained silent and listened carefully to the whole exchange. In the end while he would not rule out the possibility, he did admit that he had never used such wood to build an instrument and currently did not have plans to do so. In the end I think he is having a bit of fun (those who have met him will understand his unique sense of humor) and illustrating a much broader concept. Tone is almost purely subjective and as such is subject to being influenced in many ways, not the least of which is perceptions of quality of work and materials, whether they actually exist or not. At least that was my take on it.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/