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Thanks for all the responses and suggestions. I'm going to start off with the bending iron and go from there. Does anyone know a good place to buy one? I know several places offer them, just wondered if anyone has had better luck with a certain retailer's product. Also, for those of you who use a bending iron do you use spring steel slats on either side of the wood while bending?

Thanks

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Brad

You can make one for very little money if you look through the archives for some hints. Mine is just a scrap of galvanized pipe with an electric charcoal started jammed in. the whole thing is held in a vise and plugged into a dimmer switch. You could be practicing by the weekend. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I'm also set up for both hot pipe and fox style bender but I just can't get away from the bending iron. I just like to feel the wood melt in my hands.

Hutch

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

I use a stainless steel pipe with a torch inside. The torch isn't a very good one and it gets the pipe very hot but I find that the increased temperature helps to keep wood from breaking. Most chars sand out anyways. The hardest wood I've ever had to bend was flamed maple binding... the stuff just wants to break on you even when you used very little force. High heat is your friend here...

I pounded the pipe into an oval shape with a hammer... sorry I don't have a strong enough vise to press pipes into an oval shape and it wouldn't work on stainless steel anyways. For some reason steel reacts with Padauk to stain both the wood and the pipe, in the future the pipe gets covered in tin foil to protect the wood from any staining. Anyways hammer pounding doesn't give you a very smooth surface to bend on but it hasn't affected the quality of my bends, I wouldn't be able to bend cutaways otherwise.

I think in the future I want to switch to some kind of an electric solution, better temp. control and less safety hazards too.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I also have both types of bender, but you definitely need a hot pipe anyway for adjustments so it's good to start out with. I have the "charcoal starter jammed into a pipe" with a Harbor Freight (cheapo) router speed control to control temperature. I used a scrap of 4" aluminum conduit for the pipe, which I got at the recycling yard.

Temp should be set so that water sizzles for a second before vaporizing.

It's very true that wood selection is the most important thing. Beginners are often told to use mahogany, because it's a little cheaper than EIR, but it's one of the more difficult woods to bend. If you want a less-expensive wood to start with, consider walnut. Bends easily and is a pleasure to work with.

I think almost any tonewood dealer would sell you practice sides for next to nothing if you order along with regular wood. That's been my experience.

Almost forgot to mention the most important thing: my charcoal starter heat unit is plugged into a timer that shuts it off in case someday I might forget to.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

Good points Tim. My bender is plugged into a dimmer switch which is run through a hot tub timer switch so it will sut off automatically if I forget. And I couldn't agree more on the walnut. I cut my teeth on the hot pipe with some african mahogany that just didn't want to bend. I wish I had learned on walnut it bends so easily it would have saved a ton of early frustration.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Here is the side bender I have used for the last 20 years. Works fast, perfectly, and consistantly. Used for bindings also. took one week end to build. Why mess around with a hot pipe...and by the way, I built my first 100 guitars bending the sides on a hot pipe. Never again. This is way to easy to use and any one can build it in a small shop.



michael keller
http://www.kellerguitars.com

[img][IMG]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h129/guitarmaker/IMG_1473.jpg[/img]

+1 on the pipe with the charcoal lighter inside. You can get an aluminum pipe from LMI or from a local welding shop. The charcoal lighter I bought from Lowes is rated 500 watts. (You have to heat it and bend it to get it into the pipe.) Most wall dimmers are rated 600 watts. I like to run the pipe hot enough that water flashes off of it immediately when spritzed onto the pipe. Bending by hand is one of the most satisfying and fun parts of building for me. Pick wood without runout and make it thin enough and you'll have a good time.

Put me in the Fox style bender camp. Pipe for touchups. Several things have taken the anxiety out of my bending career for most woods and non-cutaway guitars.

*Spring steel slats (Blue Tempered Shim Stock)covered with foil

*Moist brown wrapping paper on each side of the wood

*Clamping up the sandwich with spring clamps while it heats in the bender

*Using two heating blankets with a meat thermometer stuck under the top blanket

*Taking the waist halfway down, bending the bouts and then completing the waist to keep tension on the lower slat

I think I learned all this here on the OLF over the last 6 or 7 years from guys like John Hall, John Mayes, and Todd Stock.

These days I use my pipe mostly for bending reverse kerfed lining prior to installation.

Here's one modification I did to my bender that helps. Make the top removable to easily lower the clamped sandwich in and remove the sides and when done, tie the lower slats together so they won't try to straighten the bent sides or especially binding when removing. They just pop out.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

You can bend figured wood on a pipe too, its harder but you can do it with some practice. Make sure the pipe temperature is on the high side. It should be hot enough for water to boil off immediately when you dump a teaspoon on it. It will be hot enough that you can actually scorch the wood if you leave it for too long. Get the side as thin as you can without making it too thin (about .07" is good) and wear THICK gloves and start bending. Practice on some bindings because it's much easier to break bindings than sides, but once you get the temperature high enough it should bend fairly well. Keep the side wet to minimize scorching and the water really helps the wood to relax a bit. You can buy low grade curly maple sides from www.espen.de for only 8 euros a set which can be used for practice bending. The only thing wrong with them is that their color isn't very pure, as in they have stains and stuff. They can also be cut up to make bindings too. Keep the wood HOT before applying any pressure, you should be able to feel considerable heat through the side and into your gloves. If you cold bend you will break it.

When bending bindings sometimes the wood would just let go under very light pressure and break... it seems higher heat helps to keep that from happening.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Well, we've heard from the hot pipe camp, and we've heard from the heat blanket camp.
Where's the camp that laminates their sides?

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Always have plenty of sandpaper; it's rough out there!

Greetings from Brazil,

I am from USA but live here the last 23 years. Money is real hard to come by here so I work cheap..make my own tools since they are too expensive or unavailabe. The point I want to make is this: Cost vs learning curve vs reults?? I started old school boiling wood and setting on form to dry ala Sloan..then I built heating iron out old pipe with propane flame....hot stuff..it works but burns alot and can be tricky..next I built electric bending iron with pipe and 220 electric heating element cheap for like U$5...works but then again burns and takes learning curve but its the standard old school and once you learn it is fun and relatively quick...but then again you have that learning curve !!?? practice,practice..

Then I decided to work with laminated woods because the seller market here is cheap guitars and De Georgio/Giannini/ Tonante/Del Vecchio..basically all the factories that use to build here (now all built in China) used laminated woods for backs/sides and some tops...

So I built forms and tried different glues, etc...the big factories use male/female heated presurized forms so the laminated sandwich was glued/heated/compressed and outa form in a couple of minutes...

I have been building side bender and forms since last Feburary I came stateside and bought heater blanket and temp controll...watched all the YOUTube luthier vids...and decided to build wider than usual so I can double use of bender and form to make laminated sides as well as heated sides..but the blanket is only wide enough for one side whereas I can make two sides of laminated sides....low cost instruments as well as high end instruments...but I have yet to really do any serious bending because of other guitar repair projects and health/family snafus.

The old school versus new school...low tech vs high tech...low end instruments vs high end...it all depends on your choices and what results you want as to what choice you make...I waited 10 years to go side bender with blanket due to expences and now the newer model side bender from LMI is my Xmas wish ( can build and will)...but outa my reach due to short cash flow ( two college kids to support and wife that wants to retire!!) so next year after cancer operation( another snafu) I plan to used all the ways possible to build all those instruments be they low end, middle of the road ..or high end.. laminated or solid, hybid or wierder than normal( www.unheardof instruments.com) as well and whatever kind of wild dreams I come up with under anesthesia...so its all about you and what you want to do...me I am obsessed with
anything that works and hope to use up all my stash of woods before my time runs out. build on OLFers