Official Luthiers Forum!

Have any of you used the Baggs Anthem sl pickup system? I'm considering it for a build and thought I'd check an see if any of you had any feed back. How do you think it compares to a K&K?
Thanks

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Comparing the Anthem system to the K&K, I would say the K&K sounds more like the "Your guitar only louder" effect if it's installed properly.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

K&Ks sound good in a solo guitar, coffee house type setting, but feedback terribly in a louder, band-type setting. I know a guy with a K&K installed in his OM guitar who plays in a duo and with a band at church. He cannot get the K&K to "cut" through the mix when he takes a lead. I have installed quite a few Anthems in guitars and have never been bowled over by the sound. For all the complexity of the Anthem, I would expect a bit more natural sound. I have used the Fishman Matrix Infinity with good results when a UST is called for in a band setting.
Any of the pickups mentioned benefit from an external pre like the Baggs Venue.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

I agree with Todd's comments and will add one other important point...... there are a heck of a lot of guitars running around that the full Anthem control module will not fit in. While I think it offers better control, I just can't always make it fit. Might pay to look closely at the bracing around the sound hole before you recommend it. I haven't found one that the SL model won't fit in.

Jay

I've played with the K&K on stage for the last 3 years, in an orchestra, in front of the drums and for a year and a half next to a grand piano. The drums do have a sound panel in front of them which probably helps a lot. I've played two concerts next to timpani drums with no problem. I use the K&K preamp and the sound guys say they really like it. It does react to thumps and taps. My guitar is lightly built and will resonate sometimes when people are speaking/singing and I'm not playing but it's pretty easy to mute the strings. Been a habit of mine on stage for a long time anyway. Maybe it's easier to get the sound through a full board, I don't know. Just my experience.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Todd - I haven't been asked to put one in a Gibson yet. I'll be on the lookout for that. Two that gave me the most trouble were Martin "Vintage Series" guitars with forward shifted bracing. We switched to the SL version for those and the customers seemed happy.

Steve - I really like K&K's and have them in a couple of my own guitars (I also have a K&K preamp). I also like the McIntyre Feather but it's not any where near as hot as a K&K...... a preamp is a requirement with them. I'm also growing fond of a Schatten under bridge pickup. It comes passive or active via the jack mounted preamp.

If any of these don't seem to cut it, I always have a Sunrise and preamp/buffer box in my case pocket

Jay

As an engineer and a guitar maker, in my observation I find that part of the problem with pickup selection is a combination of application and environment. In the case of the K&K, it is a great pick up with great preamps. However, it does have the disadvantage of making the soundboard into a large diaphragm microphone. In order to take advantage of its natural sound, you need someone at the mixing console who knows what they're doing, as well as having a separate split monitor mix. Systems that utilize an amplifier/monitor on stage will have more problems. Additionally, monitor systems that have particularly high stage levels will be problematic for any instrument but particularly for acoustic guitars.

Another problem goes to the issue of what you want the guitar to sound like. A solo guitar or within a duet will sound fine with a natural sound. Even within the context of say a small bluegrass quartet it will be fine. However, in the context of a band, for example say a Crosby Stills Nash, the more the engineer will want to mix for the sound of the pick more so than the guitar. In this context one finds that natural sounding guitar will get lost in the mix because it doesn't have enough cut naturally in that context. Our ears hear 20 Hz to 20 kHz only once, not for every instrument. Consequently, everybody's got to share. The lower frequencies the guitar, are going to be sacrificed in order to make room for the lower frequencies of bass and kick drum. Vocals are often rolled off below 150 Hz. This is done primarily to eliminate the lobing effect created when a vocalist sings too close to the microphone but also it makes room in the lower bandwidths. Often when mixing I will split the guitar send into two separate input channels, one of which is EQ'd for the band, and one that is EQ'd as a solo instrument. I can then choose between the two inputs depending upon whether the guitar is being used in a band situation or solo, without sacrificing the sound of the instrument throughout the show.

I'd like to add that pickups are designed as professional transducers, and often musicians are using less than professional level sound systems and then wonder why they don't perform as expected.

Interesting points I hadn't thought of, but explains a few things. On stage we use a studio in-ear monitor system. When I play outside with a 5 or 6 piece band and monitor speakers, the guitar is not as well behaved and the sound guy will often have to notch out a freq to stop feedback.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Semi tangent......

I have been playing in a rather loud band for the past 20 years. I play mostly acoustic guitar. Over the years I have played a mixture of guitars with a mixture of electronics and here is what I found:

For most of the 80s and 90s I played an Ovation Adamas. Lots of "quack" in the pickup - but I could ALWAYS be heard in the mix of the band. Lots of kidding and beatings from the "non Ovation" crowd - but I never had any issues being heard.

For the following 10 years I played a Takamine SantaFe with 3 different preamp boxes... from the standard to the digital to the cool tube. Why 3 different boxes? Because I could NEVER be found in the mix. Thought about adding the M1 - but never got around to it.

For the past 4 years I have been playing a guitar I built that has an LR Baggs LB6x pickup in it, connected to the LR Baggs Para DI. I think of all the guitars I have played, in my band situation, this one by far sounds the best. It can be crazy loud - it is articulate and can be heard in the mix. It sounds more like an acoustic guitar than the Adamas did. It's pretty tough to get things mixed right with 1 acoustic, 2 electrics, organ, sax, bass & drums. So I am pleased I found something that has keep me happy for the past 4 years.

For my situation I've not found better.

The K&K was not the right choice for my application. I've installed the K&K in multiple guitars - and in the right environment it is VERY nice (but I still recommend an outboard preamp with it). Probably more "true acoustic" sounding than my Baggs LB6 - but I feel it's uses are too limiting for what I need.

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

Thanks for the responses. It seemed to me that regular anthem was quite big and I didn't want all that attached to the top, which is why I asked about the sl, so thanks for confirming that. This guitar will mostly be used solo finger style, so I think I stick with the k&K for that, which is what I'd normally use for that.
Thanks once again.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Interesting points about cutting through the mix. Does anyone here prefer to go straight to a magnetic pickup instead of a UST from a system like the k&k or anthem? Anyone try the LR Baggs M80?

I have used almost everything out there. The Anthem SL is nice and so is the K&K, depending on the application.
My favorite pick up is the PUTW dual source. Nothing has as lovely a natural sound and it is almost feedback proof.
You can get it in 9 or 18 volt. I recommend the 9v unless you need a very hot signal.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Hey Steve, when I look at the PUTW site I don't see a "Dual Source" listed. Are you talking about the soundboard transducer with the UST along with one of their stereo preamps?

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"