Official Luthiers Forum!

Not much information here, but just came across this.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/co ... ?hpt=hp_t3

So what happens to the confiscated wood they are releasing their claim to?

Mike

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Mike Lindstrom

It will be used for making Office furniture for Gubment officals .

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

usually seized items go up for auction - maybe i should't mention this....

then again if you buy it at an auction from the government - can they come after you later ? My guess is that if they decide not to auction it - it will be come part of the burn pile of other evidence...drugs and illegal woods being burned at a landfill.

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

Wonder where is the landfill ??

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Since they settled rather than going to trial, has the wood officially been determined illegal? It is a shame to let it burn, but I can see how you can't undercut yourself by putting up for auction. Hard to say that you are going to block importation of something in order to diminish the world demand for it only to turn around and put in into the US market.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

You mean they will publically rally against it all the while snorting it up behind the scenes partying it up with nubile young co-eds who are not their spouses?

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Exactly!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Maybe the gubmint will go into the exotic wood business, and sell it out the back door for cash.
Or have AG Eric Holder sell it to luthiers in Mexico on the sly.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

New High End Guitars on the market Name " Gubment Guitar "

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Does their settling without a trial ruling set any kind of legal precedent fior the rest of us?

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I'm no attorney but I don't think settling out of court sets a precedent. It only means that they both agreed to some terms.

If there was a verdict, that could set a precedent.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

The next announcement you see from Gibson is they are no longer making instruments in the USA.

Bob

Way to go, kill more American industries, shop more jobs overseas so I guess companies can profit off of "illegal immigration"...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Amen to Fillipo's statement.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

In strict legal terms - no, this settlement does not create a legal precedent. In more lax terms (i.e., as "an act or instance that may be used as an example in dealing with subsequent similar instances") - yes, this would be a kind of legal precedent. The Gibson debacle was a great test case for the government, and it was able to "enforce" the law without allowing a court to examine the merits of its position. We can expect to see the same tactics from regulators and prosecutors in the future.

I agree that this is an abusive process, but no one is forced to settle with the government, and settlement implies a desire by the defendant to settle as much as the government. In other words, the government cannot unilaterally settle these types of claims. It can dismiss or try. Can it make defending the case exceedingly uneconomical or inconvenient - you bet. Can the government make you an offer you can't refuse (minus any horse heads in your bed) - sure. Do you HAVE to accept the offer and accept the regulator's position - nope.

Given the last few U.S. Supreme Court opinions addressing an agency's interpretation of its regs, agency interpretation is almost impenetrable. One could argue Gibson did us all a favor by not solidifying the regulatory agency's interpretation of the relevant law. In any case, if Gibson doesn't have incentive and adequate funds to fully fully litigate its case, I doubt us little guys will get it done either.

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Aaron Craig

Meanwhile we wipe our ___ with more wood in one year then the amount of wood used for all the musical instruments made throughout history.

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Another day, another dollar.

With woods pertinent to this case?

So precisely were would one submit one's resume in order to secure employment at this rip snort'in, nubile party'in company you guys keep referring to as 'the gubmint' then?

Enquiring minds need to know

Cheers

Kim

Costco doesn't provide Lacey paperwork with it's paper products. If I got raided I couldn't prove any of my TP was here legally.

Do I understand right? That technically, I need to be able to prove the source of all wood and wildlife products in my home - paper towels, salad bowl, wall studs...

Mike

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Mike Lindstrom

Of course, they admitted it.... false confessions are pressured out of the innocent all the time!




Agents wearing body armor and carrying drawn guns were hardly necessary to raid an American company selling wood products. Gibson was not a threat to the agents, and the company doesn't keep guns around to protect themselves or their legal products. Sending lawyers would have sufficed in this case - not a phalanx of armed officers. Keep in mind this happened twice!

Guilty, or not - the gubmint used a sledgehammer when a stern poke in the chest would have sufficed.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

They actually came with Guns drawn? Sounds a bit far fetched, unless they expected a shootout.

I'm not taking sides on this, but I think that is one of the facts, they did have guns drawn.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I think you have to start with fundraisers and mudslining, but I'm not sure.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

You've made quite a leap there, don't ya think. We know the first sentence above is true, but that may have little or nothing to do with the validity of the second sentence.