Official Luthiers Forum!

Do you have to change the ballasts or anything to go from the T-12 to T-8s? I've got 24 bulbs to change; six fixtures with four 4' bulbs in each - some of them have been there about 8 years so they're due for replacement.

Ok, I answered my own question - gotta change to an electronic ballast. Looks like it'll cost me about $30 per fixture for ballast and 4 bulbs.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I think you have to change the sockets too, but I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps only if u were using high output T12s. Buy a single T8 and see if it will work with ur socket. The ballast is a given. They cost almost as much as a new fixture. If it were not for the install effort, I'd say get new fixtures.

Mike

All the talk about the T8 bulbs got me pretty pumped about changing the T12's and bathing my shop in psuedo sunlight ... until I learn that I'll have to change my 12 fixtures = 24 bulbs.
I guess I'm stuck with a ghostly pall until I win a lottery! Gotta buy a ticket!!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

...or until the supply of T12s disappears. Not a bad thing really. Could take quite a while. Prolly the best thing is to stock up on enough bulbs so u won't have to worry about it. I think the major point here is don't install new T12 fixtures.

Mike

I had numerous single light bulb fixtures around the shop that were there for years. I eventually put compact fluorescents in them but was never really satisfied with them. So I eventually went and bought a couple 8 foot commercial dual fluorescent fixtures and installed them myself. I don't know how I lived with the limited light I had before. I still have a few of the single bulb fixture installed for back up...Mike

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Another day, another dollar.

The gist of the article is that you want 50-100 candles, and more toward 100 as your dealing with finer work and older eyes. Here's the math:

candles = (# of lamps x lumens per lamp x 0.5) / sq ft

I just did the math now, and my setup comes out at 43 candles on the "bench side" of the shop, and 63 on the "machine side". And that's with all lights "on", which is rare for me. My typical lighting setup comes out at 23.6 or 31 candles on the bench side, and 47 on the machine side. I find my shop is very well lit, and quite bright as it is; I honestly can't imagine wanting, or needing, double or triple that much lighting!

My shop's walls and ceiling are painted a "super white", which is white paint with a hint of blue added. All my cabinets and bench tops are white melamine. I don't hang too much "stuff" on my walls. I would suggest that the amount of light required for each shop really depends a lot on the shop itself; if your shop is such that it absorbs all the light(IE: dark or no paint, pegboard walls, etc...), then you'll need to use more lighting power, but if you think ahead and design your shop to reflect light, you'll be rather surprised at how little lighting power you really need.

As for the T-8 fixtures, watch for sales; I did my shop over the space of about 4-6 months, and never paid more than $18/fixture, and some were under $15 each. In most cases, I replaced the T-12 fixtures completely, as I was able to sell them(for $25/each for the 4 footers, and $50/each for the 8' units!! <bg>), but some of the cheapest T-8 fixtures were "shop lights" which are simple little pre-wired fixtures that are meant to be hung from the ceiling by little chains. But the price was so good On these that I just gutted them and put the ballast and wiring into the existing T-12 fixtures, and it worked out just fine.

As for not using refractors, I find that creates a more focused lighting, so in some fixtures, I leave them off, but in other areas(above the benches, for example) I want the refractors, for a "smoother" lighting. Keep them clean, and you won't be losing many "lumens".

BTW, nice workspace, Filippo!

Good point, I did some checking on the 'net and it appears the pins are the same size/spacing but the T8 bulbs look significantly larger than the T12s. The fixtures in my shop are 4-light commercial units so not sure as to the cost to replace them but worth looking to be sure.

Mario, I didn't think about the value of the old fixtures but I'm sure I can get $15 to $20 each, easy.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

it appears the pins are the same size/spacing but the T8 bulbs look significantly larger than the T12s.

T-8 are smaller/thinner than T-12. Some wanker, back in the dark ages, decided that fluorescent bulbs would be listed in a coded size of eighths of an inch. So, a T-12 bulb is 12/8"(1-1/2") in diameter while a T-8 is 1" in diameter. The T-8 will fit the T-12 sockets, but the fixtures I used all had the sockets hard-wired to the ballast, so really, all I had to do was transfer all the wires and ballast. The T-8 sockets slipped right into the T-12 fixture's "tabs".

I think you can double what you think you can get for a 4 bulb commercial fixture....


What is a "CRI"?

CRI is discussed in Jack's article as well. I agree with the notion that wall condition determines final effect. I repainted my entire work area and used super bright ceiling paint. (white). If u have exposed joists you should use fixtures with reflectors. I'm guessing that you cannot mount a T8 in a T12 fixture for reasons related to power requirements. But you can retrofit a fixture with new ballasts and pin mounts. I promise I will post a pic when I'm done. I'm so cranked about getting back to building where I can actually see with out a headlamp!

Mike

Oops, I had it backwards, smaller is good, I was cleaning the fixtures yesterday and it didn't look like anything larger would work. A pre-wired ballast would be convenient if I can find one at a reasonable price. Although, if I could get more for the old fixtures then getting a new fixture makes more sense.

CRI=color rendering index - a quantitative measure of the ability of a light source to reproduce the colors of various objects faithfully in comparison with an ideal or natural light source. Light sources with a high CRI are desirable in color-critical applications.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Filippo,
How much does the white crown molding add?
Mighty classy for a shop. Very nice workspace!

Huh? Clearly, trim means a third color... plus caulking. Yuk! But I do agree, painting in the edge means tape. Yeah, the pros do it without tape. But I can't do that. With crown, I'd have to tape above and below.

A bit off topic, but here's a few tips:

If you're painting a different color on the ceiling and walls, some of the wall paint can get on the ceiling. It won't show when you look at the wall; it only shows if you stand next to the wall and look straight up.

When using tape on a textured wall, put the tape on then wipe a thin layer of caulking along the edge of the tape where the color break will be. Keeps the paint from wicking under the tape, giving a very clean line.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Pat, OMG. Where were you with these AWESOME tips when I was painting the garage/shop? Well, no bother, I still have the rest of the house to go. But seriously, that caulk on tape is the best paint tip I ever heard. I have been using OSI Quad, even on the inside. If I hear different, I will try one of their interior caulks. Its a bit messy, but is really works well. Love that stuff.

Mike

Mike,

Old tips I learned from my uncle in the 60s. I was a kid, had done some woodworking, mostly building coaster carts to zoom down hills in our neighborhood. He was my hero. I was astounded when, working alone, he punched a hole in our dining room wall for a stairway, added a window, hung sheetrock, and added wiring and outlets to make a family room in our attic. Four days to paint and carpet. He was full of tips like that; wish I remembered more.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Pat, I bought some DAP acrylic painter's caulk. Used that on the tape. Will paint tomorrow night and let you know how it turns out. This is one of those tips that just makes sense.

Mike