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I have put up with poor lighting for years. I finally said enough. Just as I did, and article (not in the forums) popped up at SawMillCreek. There is a lighting calculator buried in the comments. I used much of this to estimate my requirements. Learned a bit along the way too. I highly recommend this article. I'm loving the new light!

Mike

Interesting article. I have to say though...while detailing much ABOUT light and light sources it didn't give me a clear sense of direction with regard to my particular problem. My finishing area is 15' x 15' with 8' ceilings with 5 screw bulb fixtures....not ideal according to the article.

When sanding or spraying I was having a hard time seeing what I was doing no matter how much light used. I ended up going outside to sand and found that natural light was ideal. That led me to buy "daylight" bulbs which significantly improved the room. I think that adding more light of this type would l improve things slightly but I can't emphasize how much of a difference the type of light made in this situation....quite impressive.

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StuMusic

I had the same experience. My favorite are the "Triten 50" florescent bulbs. They are bright and very white, not that awful blue that some "daylight" bulbs are

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I have three swing arm lamps and two rows of flood lights set up in my shop. I like to get vintage all metal swing arm lamps off of Ebay or antique stores. To bring out scratches or other blemishes it is important to use low angle light.

I use these LED lights that Lowe's sells which drastically improve lighting in my shop over any other bulb. They are quite expensive but well worth the money. I pick one up every time I go to Lowes. They last forever and use very low wattage. Its unbelievable how good the quality of light these produce, it's like a little sun, or like high definition. The only issue is they are heavy so be sure to tighten all the screws good and tight on the swing arm lamps.

Utilitech 40-Watt Equivalent Indoor LED Flood Light Bulb. Lowes item #338804, Model #: LPAR20DM/LED


I'll try to remember to take pics of my shop light set up.

Ditto they work well ! ( insert stupid mindless drivel here )

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Well, the point of that article was to educate, and provide a rational starting point. Even so, I found myself off by a factor of two. I did not think that was bad. Now, I don't need alternative light sources. Plus, I added pull switches to the fixtures (which are all on the same circuit) so I can pull fixtures in and out of the mix based on my activity.

Uncanny how info sources like this appear just as I'm ready to tackle the project!

Mike

PS: avoid anything T12. Many of those are being phased out. As well as anything with a magnetic ballast.

I had this conversation with Joe White awhile ago. I have terrible lighting in my shop, recently upgraded a couple of the lights to daylight spectrum T8 tubes but still I think I need a few more. I still can't really see what I'm doing...and when it comes to guitar building I'd say it is pretty important!

Probably hang a few more T8's on the ceiling but If it was at all possible a skylight would definitely be the way to go...during daylight times of course!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
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Peter, download that spreadsheet for calculating the number of lamps. My experience showed me that the 100 fc baseline is too high (for me) so I used 50 fc. I think it will surprise you how good of an estimator it is. It will also surprise you how many you need!

Those daylight lamps are on the high end of the color- temperature spectrum, like 6100 K. That is what sunlight is. Some people like that, some don't. They are bright!

During final sanding, tiny faults show up much better with shadows, which is why a "raking" light, with a low angle of incidence, helps reveal little scratches and dings. Directional light, like what we get from a filament and direct sunlight is a lot better for that. I think that's why more light from fluorescents doesn't help us see details any better - it just eliminates more shadows. Diffuse light from fluorescents is too scattered IMO for detail work, but still good for general shop lighting, where you want less shadows.

I'm building a stash of incandescent bulbs, both daylight and clear, for the day when they're no longer available. The color temperature of daylight bulbs, which tend toward blue, helps too. You don't want "warm" or "soft", which are of a lower color temperature, and tend toward yellow.

Pat

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[quote="Kent Chasson"My favorite are the "Triten 50" florescent bulbs. They are bright and very white, not that awful blue that some "daylight" bulbs are[/quote]

Hi Kent, Are you saying you like the 5k color better than say 6k-7k? Or something about that brand of bulb?

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Pat

Several years back I realized that I couldn't see anywhere near adequate enough for instrument building, so I replaced all my florescent fixtures (they were cheap anyway) with track lighting and low voltage halogens. It made a world of difference, although they still put out more heat than the florescent units are.
I would love to convert to LED when the small bulbs become more cost effective and brighter.

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I agree with raking angle and shadows and all of that. I have a couple of special lamps in the bench for that stuff. But man-o-man is it nice working in a shop where it's as bright as daylight. This has got to help with the process.

Mike (that's a smiley with sunglasses)

I've often thought of lighting my shop....on fire! yuk yuk yuk

I had to change out a ballast on one of the shop fluorescent fixtures recently. When I removed the tubes I was surprised by the amount of fine dust which had collected on top of the bulbs after 15 years. Dusting them off resulted in a noticeable improvement.

If you have a Garage door opener in you shop with 60 watt bulbs you can increase the output and use less current by doing this:

I was surprised by the amount of fine dust which had collected on top of the bulbs after 15 years. Dusting them off resulted in a noticeable improvement.

Oy! Vey! I make it a point to take down and wash all my tubes, the fixtures and refractors at least 3-4 times a year. 15 years? Never. 15 weeks and they're in need of attention. Fluorescent tubes also begin losing output from the first time you use them, so even if they still work, swap them every 2 years or so(depends on how many hours you use them, so change 2 of them, and if the output is noticeable, swap-out the rest of them!).

I also changed my entire shop from T-12 to T-8 about 5 years ago. One of my best moves yet! A fixture of 2, 4', 32watt "daytlight" T-8 replaced a pair of 8', 60w T-12 and put out more, and better light, with nearly no heat and no hum whatsoever. Craziest thing was that I was selling the T-12 fixtures and bulbs on a local swap site for more than the T-8 stuff was costing! In other words, I got better lighting, and made money! <lol> Oh, and I cut my wattage almost in half, for a substantial energy(dollars!) savings(on the order of a few hundred clams/year).

ALL my lights are identical; I buy them in bulk packs, and keep one box end for reference. Mixing lights in a shop is a bad thing to do, trust me. Been there, did that. Your eyes are always adjusting to the color temperature as you move around, and never truly get acclimated. And when trying to take photos, your camera will have trouble finding its white balance, and most cameras can be seen "hunting" back and forth when you hold the shutter button halfway to focus-in a shot. If all the lights are identical, the camera will find the white balance right away and lock onto it nicely. Same for your eyes.

You may find "daylight" bulbs to be too "cold" or too "blue" if you're used to the warmer color of incandescent, but you'll get used to it real quick(like, an hour) and later find incandescent lighting to be dull and bland. You'll soon notice that colors are more correct, everywhere in your shop and you no longer have those "oh crap!" moments when you walk outside to double-check your work, only to find that the nice sunburst you just shot is green-ish...

As for movable fixtures to assist with low angle viewing, I just pick-up my work every now and again and hold it up to the light and sight down the surface. Same thing, but no special fixture(s) needed(and I get some exercise, too).

Keep It Simple.

I decided to go with T8 4100K lights. And they are very bright, but not "cold". The article reccomends cleaning the lights regularly (I think, or maybe it was in a comment). It also recommends no lenses or bulb protector sleeves. This was not a cheap project (nor overly expensive). But it sure has made a huge difference. I started off the project feeling I was well informed. But I still goofed and purchased 8' T12s. The lighting guy at lowes assured me that these were not being phased out. I did more research and found out he was wrong. So I took them all back (even one I had installed). I spoke with the manager about the situation. He said he had no idea. I'm glad I went with the 4' T8s (4 in a fixture in one room, 2 in a fixture in another room). They are much easier to handle.

Mike

Do you have to change the ballasts or anything to go from the T-12 to T-8s? I've got 24 bulbs to change; six fixtures with four 4' bulbs in each - some of them have been there about 8 years so they're due for replacement.

Ok, I answered my own question - gotta change to an electronic ballast. Looks like it'll cost me about $30 per fixture for ballast and 4 bulbs.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I think you have to change the sockets too, but I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps only if u were using high output T12s. Buy a single T8 and see if it will work with ur socket. The ballast is a given. They cost almost as much as a new fixture. If it were not for the install effort, I'd say get new fixtures.

Mike

All the talk about the T8 bulbs got me pretty pumped about changing the T12's and bathing my shop in psuedo sunlight ... until I learn that I'll have to change my 12 fixtures = 24 bulbs.
I guess I'm stuck with a ghostly pall until I win a lottery! Gotta buy a ticket!!

Alex

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...or until the supply of T12s disappears. Not a bad thing really. Could take quite a while. Prolly the best thing is to stock up on enough bulbs so u won't have to worry about it. I think the major point here is don't install new T12 fixtures.

Mike

I had numerous single light bulb fixtures around the shop that were there for years. I eventually put compact fluorescents in them but was never really satisfied with them. So I eventually went and bought a couple 8 foot commercial dual fluorescent fixtures and installed them myself. I don't know how I lived with the limited light I had before. I still have a few of the single bulb fixture installed for back up...Mike

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The gist of the article is that you want 50-100 candles, and more toward 100 as your dealing with finer work and older eyes. Here's the math:

candles = (# of lamps x lumens per lamp x 0.5) / sq ft

I just did the math now, and my setup comes out at 43 candles on the "bench side" of the shop, and 63 on the "machine side". And that's with all lights "on", which is rare for me. My typical lighting setup comes out at 23.6 or 31 candles on the bench side, and 47 on the machine side. I find my shop is very well lit, and quite bright as it is; I honestly can't imagine wanting, or needing, double or triple that much lighting!

My shop's walls and ceiling are painted a "super white", which is white paint with a hint of blue added. All my cabinets and bench tops are white melamine. I don't hang too much "stuff" on my walls. I would suggest that the amount of light required for each shop really depends a lot on the shop itself; if your shop is such that it absorbs all the light(IE: dark or no paint, pegboard walls, etc...), then you'll need to use more lighting power, but if you think ahead and design your shop to reflect light, you'll be rather surprised at how little lighting power you really need.

As for the T-8 fixtures, watch for sales; I did my shop over the space of about 4-6 months, and never paid more than $18/fixture, and some were under $15 each. In most cases, I replaced the T-12 fixtures completely, as I was able to sell them(for $25/each for the 4 footers, and $50/each for the 8' units!! <bg>), but some of the cheapest T-8 fixtures were "shop lights" which are simple little pre-wired fixtures that are meant to be hung from the ceiling by little chains. But the price was so good On these that I just gutted them and put the ballast and wiring into the existing T-12 fixtures, and it worked out just fine.

As for not using refractors, I find that creates a more focused lighting, so in some fixtures, I leave them off, but in other areas(above the benches, for example) I want the refractors, for a "smoother" lighting. Keep them clean, and you won't be losing many "lumens".

BTW, nice workspace, Filippo!

Good point, I did some checking on the 'net and it appears the pins are the same size/spacing but the T8 bulbs look significantly larger than the T12s. The fixtures in my shop are 4-light commercial units so not sure as to the cost to replace them but worth looking to be sure.

Mario, I didn't think about the value of the old fixtures but I'm sure I can get $15 to $20 each, easy.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"