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Someone may have tried this ,not sure so I`ll pass this on.I tried that Crystallac pore filler yesterday and today,and it`s just okay in my opinion.It`s working ,but I`ve got 4 coats on ,and still a few pores showing.So I glance over on a shelf were I keep some stuff and there`s a bottle of titebond liquid hide glue.So I say why not.Guess what this stuff works pretty good.I took a very porous piece of EIR and sanded it with 220 and left the dust on .I then spread some of the LHG on with a credit card keeping it pretty flat to the wood kind of like when you use drywall mud.I didn`t get rid of any excess as Todd does with his squeegee just left it on.Don`t know ,might even be easier if I`d squeegeed off.Anyway it dries in a little over an hour.It was real easy to sand back to wood with 220.Pores were almost 100% filled with 1 coat.A little more experimenting may help ,as to if there are any drawbacks to this method.Maybe someone else can chime in about that.Now I`m wondering about HHG and what that would do.I tried the same thing with out sanding first and it did pretty good ,but not quite as good.2 coats did the job.Funny thing I`ve never used the LHG for anything related to guitars.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Don't do any grain raising and try your finish on the scrap first. Not sure it would be my cup of tea but who would of thunk we would be using all the other things for pore filling. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Hope it works for you.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I haven't tried the Titebond liquid Hide but I have tried Fish Glue and sawdust. Works pretty well but like a lot of fillers, it shrinks. I found that it took 3 coats. Perfectly good filler though - it binds and it sticks, which is all you really need it to do.

Yeah, I`m gonna slap some sealer and finish on it here in a bit.It didn`t raise the grain at all.It filled the pores better on the first coat than anything I`ve ever tried before.It actually filled better on the first coat without saw dust than anything I`ve tried.The stuff is the consistency of that white Karo syrup,nice and thick.Real easy to spread around .Doesn`t dry to fast while spreading,but dries fast enough to sand in an hour or so, also real easy to sand and doesn`t stink or hurt your eyes or anything like that,like some products.Pore filling is my most hated procedure and this stuff just seems too good to be true.A little more experimenting will tell the tale.If anyone has some laying around .Maybe they can mess with it a bit and see what they come up with.This stuff hasn`t shrunk so far.Maybe I should contact the folks at Titebond and get some input.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

i doubt that Titebond will be able to help you much, only because they are unlikely to have used it as a pore filler. A suitable pore filler has to meet a few requirements: stick and bind to the pores, have a certain hardness, fill them in a reasonable time and it also has to look 'natural' in terms of the colour match.
There's no reason that I can think of as to why it shouldn't work. Just try a few more experiments using different types of wood.

I am looking for a good pore filler too for wood that isn't quite as porous as swamp ash, but still have small pores like mahogany, rosewood, etc.

There are almost no good pore fillers available in Taiwan, all they have is concrete putty or latex based wood filler, and I've been using concrete putty by dying them a brown color before using them. The trouble is that it took a very large amount of colors since the white in concrete putty lightens the colors a LOT. I can find liquid hide glue though and maybe I can give that a try...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Drywall compound makes a good pore filler. My favorite at the moment, though, is Timbermate. It's got to be the easiest and friendly pore filler I've tried yet....you just thin it with a bit of water. I almost always fill completely on the first pass. My second choice would be drywall compound and you can probably find that easily in Taiwan, though I don't know that's true.

edit: Hey, Robbie even made a video on this, just so you don't think I'm looney. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhk6rZ2U ... r_embedded

I've been using drywall compounds for a while because it was all I could find. I just need to get some artist acrylic colors or black ink to color them...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

My wife applies paint over liquid hide glue when she wants a "crackled" finish, so I'd be concerned with using it as a pore filler. She paints over it while it's still not quite dry, but still......

If you want to use a glue as a pore filler, I had success some 12 or so years ago with thin CA as a pore filler under NC lacquer. Just the cheap hardware store CA, too. Spread it with a plastic spreader/credit card, let it dry, sand-back, reapply once or twice further until all pores are filled, and there ya have it. Clear pore filler, done in 30 minutes or less! Be warned, though, to have a fan blowing the fumes away from your face, or you're in for some watery eyes.....

Drywall compound? Interesting. Not sure I would have believed it without Robbie's video.

Mike

Reguardless of material used for pore filling there's 2 things that cause most peoples problems.

1. Not getting the filler down into the pores. If you bridge the pores, instead of filling them the filler will sink and you'll never get them filled.
2. Sanding too much (usually with a power sander) and sanding into new pores.

I'd be willing to bet that liquid hide glue shrinks more than crystalac filler.........but liquid hide glue would be easier to get down into the pores. I use a squeegee to force crystalac into the pores. The most coats I've ever had to use is 4. That was with Wenge.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Woody, what is the dry-to-sand time between coats?

Mike

If you're going to use any Titebond product as a coating, you picked the one we know the most about for that purpose. It is absolutely correct that Liquid Hide Glue can be for crackling... However, this technique works because the hide glue is first applied as a film and then covered with water-based paint. The highly hygroscopic hide glue swells and tears itself apart, thus creating the effect. Pore filling is another story, and while I have encountered it in use for this before I know very little of how best to go about it. As long as the finish is not water based I do not see any immediate cause for concern, just keep in mind that you're treading on new ground.

One additional property of hide glue could be beneficial for pore filling: UV fluorescence. Since hide glue is composed of proteins it will glow under a black light and allow you to inspect penetration and coverage. I also highly recommend testing Liquid Hide Glue if it is over 18 months past its date of production. This can be accomplished by spreading a thin film over a piece of paper to ensure it dries into a rigid and tack free state. Over time, the proteins will degrade in the bottle and eventually fail to fully dry.

I let it dry 1 hour between coats. If you put/leave too much on it will gum up a little if you sand that quick. I've always let it sit overnight before applying any finish, but don't know if that's necessary.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

The reason I asked was I read somewhere that 24 hours was required between coats. That seemed excessive to me.

Mike

I've ordered some hollow glass beads and some reddish brown phenolic beads used as epoxy filler. Gonna do some test samples to see how well they assist with pore fill.

Mike

Grumps is right about the crackle effect.Liquid hide is water soluble.I talked to a techy at titebond about this and he said to seal it first with a solvent based sealer and it should work.So I sealed with shellac and then used Em 6000 over it,which is waterbased and it didn`t crackle.I`ve been using CA for a few years now and it works really good ,just real stinky and a bit hard to sand.But definitely
works well.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

I have read in older woodworking books where hot hide glue was used as a pore filler at times.

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Another day, another dollar.

I tried that a few years back. It shrinks a lot and is more problematic than Fish and (probably) Liquid Hide. The gelling factor can make it difficult to move around and it is real messy.

Anybody tried shellac and pumice, or is that too crazy?

Yea, I tried it, but really time consuming and difficult to do right... still ended up with a bunch of unfilled pores and other "stuff". I really like Robbie's drywall compound method... I've been using that for a while and didn't think it was the right way until Robbie said something about it.

Now instead of using Behlen's inlay filler (which is expensive, and while they're great for coloring epoxies to fill inlays, they're horrible at coloring drywall compound!), I bought some india ink at a stationary store, a little bit and the filler is blacker than the night. Now I just wish they have some brown india ink for times when I want a light brown filler.

Drywall compound is really easy to sand... shellac is not.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I find the drywall concept interesting, but drywall is a "dull" substance. Non-crystalline. Texturally, it fits one of my desires. But not the other... Crystalline.

Epoxy meets the crystalline desire, but not the pore cramming nature of drywall compound. Or some putty. That's why I am exploring the glass bead concept.

Mike

What do you mean by crystalline? Drywall compound is made from calcium carbonate mixed with a binder... I'd say that's pretty crystalline.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

In nature, it is a crystal. But drywall compound is not translucent. That's what I meant. U fill the pores with a substance that is essentially opaque. Epoxy finish resins that we use are translucent. Crystalline if you will.

Mike

It depends on wood but I found on mahogany colored wood black filler looks very good as it highlights the wood pores, and woods like swamp ash also benefits from an opaque filler. Using shellac with pumice also results in an opaque filler.

The thing I don't like about epoxy is (aside from possible danger of becoming allergic to it) is that they are very difficult to sand, and it also takes forever to cure if you use a proper epoxy (not hardware store adhesives). I suppose you can make it work if you're careful but the description for Zpoxy at LMI says you can't sand through them... but that is hard when you're pore filling.

I personally would prefer polyester resin if I am using a brush on slather type of pore filler, because polyester resin is very easy to sand compared to epoxy.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com