Official Luthiers Forum!

Planning to start a build for a nylon/hybrid and I am looking for recommendations for the best tuners under $75 -$100. A couple of years ago it seemed that the Rubner tuners would fit this description. see this post:
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23466&p=320259&hilit=+classical+rubner#p320259

However, in this post from last fall the comments for the Rubner tuners were not as positive:
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33675&p=443432&hilit=+classical+rubner#p443432

It seems that most of the classical builders move toward more expensive tuners, which I can definitely understand for the guys building for clients or just building a higher end classical. But I am looking to keep this build a bit less expensive.

This guitar will be built from economy / opportunity grade woods. I plan to build a nicer guitar this summer as well, but want some practice bending cheaper woods first - and might as well use the wood as long as I am bending it.

Thanks for any feedback,

Greg

_________________
Greg Hatcher
North Carolina

Greg, In the price range you've stipulated there are the Gotoh Lyra machines. (GGC1 @ LMI) They are good tuners and should suit your requirements and cost target.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... cal+Tuners

You could go a step better with the Schaller Hauser style (SHG1 @ LMI)

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... g+Machines

Either of these sets should do just fine.

_________________
Peter

In that price range, I believe the Schallers are better than the Gotohs. I bought a set of Gotoh's a while back and gave them away, because I didn't want to put them on a guitar, they were so cheaply made. Rubner are better than the Gotohs by a lot. Actually the Rubners aren't bad at all. I recently put a set of the newer ones on one of my old guitars (#3), and liked them a lot. They have the Teflon bushings on them, and it makes a big difference in the smoothness.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thanks for the recommendations. I will check those out.

Greg

_________________
Greg Hatcher
North Carolina

Here's one more opinion: Schallers and Gotohs are excellent mid-priced tuners.

I like the mid priced ($70?) Gotoh lyres. They have a cheaper model that is also a good value at the price, but it's not as well made. You'll have to make sure that lyres will work with your head stock design. Is it long enough beyond the upper roller hole? Does a lyre fit with rest of your style? Gotoh doesn't make a real "Hauser" style base plate. The model that's closest, looks very Japanese. It would work perfectly on a guitar with a Japanese theme, but to my eye, it clashes with any Spanish or German styling. What I like about the Gotohs: They work well, and go on working well. The plate assembly is solid brass, with very traditional bradded gear posts. The bradded ends are recessed, so the plate fits flat against the guitar without any fiddling. The Gotoh line has different quality levels of mechanism at the different price points. You get what you pay for.

For a mid-priced "Hauser" style tuner, I go with the Schallers. They work as well as the Gotohs at the same price, but their styling is a little more "German". That works for the "Hauser" model, but their lyre is a little clunky. The Schaller base plate is cast zinc. It functions well, but the decorations are not as well defined. Their "ebony" knobs look like real ebony. (I don't like plastic.) The "ebony" knobs available on Gotohs are some other wood dyed black. I don't think Schaller offers cheaper or higher priced tuners. They've concentrated on making a very good mid-priced tuner.

I understand that the newer Rubners with the teflon bushing perform well. I haven't had a chance to try them. I installed plenty of their older models, and I wasn't a fan. On those, there was a lot of friction, and not smooth friction, built into the mechanism. The mechanism was the same throughout their product line. I think that's still the case. You can pay more money for increased ornamentation, but the function doesn't change. I also got tired of having to trim the ends of the too long rollers. I don't know if they've addressed that issue. The bradded ends of the gear posts protruded, requiring punching 24 small divots into each guitar to get the tuners to sit flat. I installed enough of them that I made a jig for trimming the rollers, and another for punching the divots. Still, each time I asked myself "Why?". On the good side, the ornamentation on the Rubners is scribed into the base plates. It looks a little cleaner than the pressed plates on the Gotohs, and much nicer than the Schaller castings.

One feature that is overdue on mid priced tuners is the roller bushing that is standard on Allesi tuners, and the high-end Gotohs. This is a simple mechanism, and a big functional improvement.

My pet peeve on the tuner evaluations that you see in guitar magazines (and sometimes on forums) is the attention payed to "lash". Gear lash doesn't matter in a tuner. In use, the lash is always taken out by the string tension. Poorly cut nuts will cause the tuning problems that players blame on "lash". New tuners won't help.

Poorly cut nuts?

_________________
"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Eric, Thanks for the details. I had not heard anything about the too long rollers.

_________________
Greg Hatcher
North Carolina