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Bob Shanklin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Here is a link to Dave Fifield's compound radius jig, which is simalar to Rod's. http://www.cambrianguitars.com/compradjig.html

Bob
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ChuckB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Here is a different take of Rod's and Dave's jig.

Chuck


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theguitarwhisperer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Bryan Bear wrote:
For my current project, I wanted to try a compound radius. I thought long and hard about how I wanted to tackle this, then threw it all out the window and did it my hand. I carpet taped the slotted and tapered board to a marble slab and used a plane. I followed the taper and tried to take full strokes along the string paths. I was surprised how QUICK AND EASY it was. I didn't bother to measure the radii but they feel about right and a straight edge shows the board is straight along each string path. The board is fretted and attached to the neck (90% carved) but I am not near ready to put the whole guitar together, so I may run into unforeseen setup problems, But I don't think so.


Get a couple of radius gauges to check with, just in case you ever decide to build a guitar with a Floyd Rose bridge.
For a Floyd Rose bridge you want a 10 radius at the nut and a 16 radius at the 22nd fret. If you have an adjustable bridge it doesn't really matter as long as the saddles are individually height adjustable.

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Corky Long
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:31 pm 
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The approach I've used is to hog off the main waste with a large, sharp plane, then test my accuracy with a Stewmac (or LMI, can't remember) radiused sanding block. With a little practice I can get relatively close to a decent radius. Then I use a straight and true sanding block (I',m using a 10" plane bed with adhesive sandpaper on the bottom at present) if I want to approximate a compound radius.

I don't much like creating fine ebony sawdust - it seems to crawl up my nose whether I'm wearing a mask or not. So I try to get close with the plane. I haven't tried to create a radius jig for the router, but I'm not particularly gifted at building precise jigs. For me it's a bit of a chore that I'd rather use the brainpower for the guitar building. It's taken me some time to say "uncle" but that's how it is for me.
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jfmckenna
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Rod True wrote:
Well, I did the first 8 guitars with a sanding block. It sucks!!!! 60 grit to hog, 80/100 grit to remove 60 grit sanding marks, 150,180,220,320. The first few grits are going to need a fair amount of human power sanding back and forth, back and forth.....with the remaining needing about 30-40% as much sanding. So after the initial hogging off of material (and during) one needs to stop, brush off the sandpaper of dust, vacuum up the dust off the board and continue, then after one grit is done, you need to load the sanding block with fresh paper of the next higher grit. If stick on sandpaper is used, this is pretty quick but still needs to remove the first grit, clean off the block of any possible glue residue and stick on the next grit etc... everything takes time.

The other factor with sanding in the radius is that it's easy to get the board thinner on one side versus the other (bass to treble side) so a decent sanding jig needs to be made to ensure the sanding block is held parallel to the surface holding the fretboard.

With my jig, I only need to set my router hight which takes about 1 minute (or less) then I'm routing. I can go right to 220 grit backed by my hand after routing... Once my board is thicknessed, tapered, slotted and bound, it only takes me about 3-5 mins to get the jig down, tape the board in place (vacuum would be quicker), set the router bit height and route (4-5 passes is all it takes). So for me at least, this is much easier and quicker and I like it [:Y:]


Hmmmm interesting... Ok I want one now :) But still... I think maybe Fillipo and I ought to be on one team, and you can pick your teammate. The race is on :D

As for the asymmetric sanding using a block... I will attest that this is true. It happened to me on my very first build using a sanding block. But then I figured out that to prevent that you just count your strokes, do 25 in this direction then flip it and do 25 in the other. Works like a charm.
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theguitarwhisperer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:29 am 
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Rod True wrote:


The other factor with sanding in the radius is that it's easy to get the board thinner on one side versus the other (bass to treble side) so a decent sanding jig needs to be made to ensure the sanding block is held parallel to the surface holding the fretboard.
[:Y:]


Everything has pros and cons.

Sanding it in allows you to correct as you go if necessary, though with a little practice that shouldn't be a problem.

Routing the radius requires you to have the jig set perfectly also so that one side doesn't end up thinner than the other, and if t's a little off, it's too late once you start, and also the ends as well, and the platform the fretboard rests on must be perfectly flat, the fretboard must also be attached perfectly parallel to the router path.

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Andy Birko
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:59 pm 
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I wanted to run a somewhat nutty idea by y'all on this one.

I make compound radius fretboards on my CNC machine and while the surface comes out really nice with a .008 step over and a 1/2" ball nose bit, it still needs sanding to get it perfect.

The idea I had was to make a semi circular cylindrical sanding block that has the nut radius machined into it at one end, the FB end radius at the other and a smooth transition between the two machined between the two ends.

To use it, you'd rotate 90 degrees in one stroke it as you sand down the fretboard. (In the photo below, I used a 4 and 8" radius just so it would be easier to see but obviously, the actual start and end radius of the board would be machined in an actual sanding block). If 90 degrees is too much, the same thing could be accomplished in say 70 degrees or something like that. The key would be to try and match the radius of the board to the radius of the block as you're taking strokes.

I realize it wouldn't be perfect and would take some technique to use but, as luthiers we're used to technique oriented stuff.

What do you guys think? Would this help sand a compound radius board or do you think it would be too difficult to get aligned with each stroke?


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windsurfer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:01 pm 
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I never knew radiasing a board could be so complicated idunno

I sand a short section on the nut end with a 16" radius block, sand a short section on the bridge end with a 20" block and then connect the two sections with whatever plane is sharpest at the time.

works fine with slotted or unsloted baords
easy to make a whatever compound radius you want
only needs short radius blocks
gets a nice surface with a minimum of sanding

-jd
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Jeff Highland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Andy, that sanding block would not be a good idea.
With any method of producing a fretboard surface, the most important aspect is to create straight lines along the stringpaths and this sort of curved block would not be likely to achieve this.
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Andy Birko
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Jeff, are you thinking that it would end up with a wavy surface?

I'm actually not proposing using it to rough out a board but rather to put the finishing touches on an already radiused board. e.g. with 320g paper.

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Bryan Bear
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Andy, I think that is a neat idea. I'm not sure if it would work well or not, but it is good "out of the box thinking". I wonder though, if it is more complicated than needed. Your CNCed surface should be plenty accurate. If you are just cleaning it up, why can't you use a long and narrow straight sanding beam running the length of the board following the string paths. The actual radii matters much less than a level surface under the strings along the taper. Sometimes I think we over-think radiusing finger boards. Violins and the like have had compound radius fingerboards before router jigs and sanding boards. . .

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Andy Birko
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:41 pm 
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The surface off the machine is very very good, the machine marks are well under .001" in irregularity and, I did preface that it's a "nutty" idea but, just thinking out loud.

I think that with how nice the boards are off the machine, a piece of 320 folded on it self a couple times would be plenty to do the job right without any problems to be honest.

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Jim_H
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Andy,

I know nothing about CNC, but I think you might be over thinking this. If all you are doing is trying to sand off the tool marks using 320 grit paper, wouldn't a soft foam/sponge type sanding block be all you need?

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RogerC108
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Here's Virgil's rig - viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=33929

This one makes it a snap to do compound radii-- simply put the appropriate radius forms on either end, and bob's your uncle [:Y:]

I plan to build one similar this weekend. As a matter of fact, this weekend will consist of plenty of jig-making and tool tune-up activities.
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BobK
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Andy, that's an interesting idea. I machine compound radius boards with my cnc as well and you are correct, they still need to be sanded smooth. I got around the problem by milling up a full length sanding beam made of ply stacked vertically with a matching compound radius. Taking very short sanding strokes blends the radius of the fretboard and leaves a smooth surface. The beam can then be used as a clamping caul. The biggest drawback is that you'll have to mill up different beams for each radius/scale combination.

Bob
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Joe Sallis
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:18 pm 
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I have a question that applies to time and ease. You can't get a compound radius with a sanding block so does it take longer to level the frets?
I say this because I've used a sanding block but had trouble with the frets but when I tried to do a compound radius with a block plane and followed the line of the strings I had less work on the frets. The ideal would be no leveling of frets at all.
I do fancy the router jig though especially for production runs.

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Andy Birko
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:11 pm 
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Jim_H wrote:
If all you are doing is trying to sand off the tool marks using 320 grit paper, wouldn't a soft foam/sponge type sanding block be all you need?


Pretty much, yes. :D

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Barry Daniels
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:38 am 
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RogerC108 wrote:
Here's Virgil's rig - viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=33929

This one makes it a snap to do compound radii-- simply put the appropriate radius forms on either end, and bob's your uncle [:Y:]

I plan to build one similar this weekend. As a matter of fact, this weekend will consist of plenty of jig-making and tool tune-up activities.


Roger, this type of jig will only do a cylindrical radius, not a compound.
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jfmckenna
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:10 am 
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windsurfer wrote:
I never knew radiasing a board could be so complicated idunno

I sand a short section on the nut end with a 16" radius block, sand a short section on the bridge end with a 20" block and then connect the two sections with whatever plane is sharpest at the time.

works fine with slotted or unsloted baords
easy to make a whatever compound radius you want
only needs short radius blocks
gets a nice surface with a minimum of sanding

-jd


I like that idea, may have to try that next time.
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Ron Belanger
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:28 am 
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Barry Daniels wrote:
RogerC108 wrote:
Here's Virgil's rig - viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=33929

This one makes it a snap to do compound radii-- simply put the appropriate radius forms on either end, and bob's your uncle [:Y:]

I plan to build one similar this weekend. As a matter of fact, this weekend will consist of plenty of jig-making and tool tune-up activities.


Roger, this type of jig will only do a cylindrical radius, not a compound.


Barry,
I have a similar jig to this and by putting a smaller radius form on the nut end and a larger one on the other end a compound radius is easily achieved.

Ron
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Kim
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:41 am 
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Barry Daniels wrote:
RogerC108 wrote:
Here's Virgil's rig - viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=33929

This one makes it a snap to do compound radii-- simply put the appropriate radius forms on either end, and bob's your uncle [:Y:]

I plan to build one similar this weekend. As a matter of fact, this weekend will consist of plenty of jig-making and tool tune-up activities.


Roger, this type of jig will only do a cylindrical radius, not a compound.



Yes I made a FB radiusing jig from plans I bought from Rick Micheletti and it looks to operate on a similar principal to Virgil's jig in so much that it also has a guide for the router with exchangeable radius insets for the ends linked by a carriage board. Its a great rig for cutting a single radii but you can't really do compound radius as the design does not lend itself to that. Once you link the two ends with something as unyielding as the carriage board, the jig will bias to which ever radius has the most clamping force..

Here's an old photo of the jig:

Image

What is going on to prevent the jig from cutting a compound radius is discussed in more detail here:

viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13639

Like I said, its still a really good jig for single radius of you choice, just change the inset. If you want to do a compound you can cut a single to match the bridge end and take the compound to the nut by hand.

Cheers

Kim
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Ken McKay
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Here is the tool I made to sand a compound radius perfectly. In response to sanding after the compound radius is shaped. I just want to give credit where it is due. I think Bob Taylor invented it. I think I was the first to do the shaper jig though.
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/228113-fingerboard-radius-jig.html#post2688179

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