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I mentioned awhile back I was considering a new Jointer/Planer. I wanted a bigger jointer to flatten boards for resawing but I also needed to make room for a new cyclone dust collector. So I sold my 8" jointer and 15" planer and bought the Jet JJP 12 and put a Byrd helical head on it.

I used to build a lot more furniture but since I have been building guitars full time, I find myself using my planer infrequently. Otherwise, I would have been hesitant to get a combo machine. As it is, this thing converts in under 30 seconds but it is still inconvenient.

Downside:
The machine came with a bad motor and tables that were not flat. They eventually sent me a new motor but it was still a pain. I suppose bad parts are a risk on any import in this price range but FWIW, my new dust collector came with a bad American made 5 horse Baldor motor too.

The tables are ribbed supposedly for less drag. That might work if the tops of the ridges were actually polished but as it is, the tops of the ridges have a coarse finish and there is no less drag than on a flat table. And speaking of flat, it's not. They are out enough that it is impossible to get a perfect joint. Close enough for everything except plate joining but not perfect.

The tables have convenient coplaner adjustments but it's unclear whether they stay in adjustment with jointer/planer change-overs. When I get the tables flattened, I'll let you know.

Upside
It works and has a small footprint. The helical blades are the way to go and well worth the extra $1000. The fence is a bit flimsy but it works fine and is easy to adjust. The guard is nice. Change-overs are a breeze. The fence stays on and the tables just flip up.

Conclusion
If you have the space and the money, definitely go for dedicated machines. If not, this is a very good alternative. The only machine I know in the price range is the Grizzly. They re-designed the fence for the new model because the old one took up so much room. I'd at least take a look at the new Griz to compare but the change-over is certainly better on the Jet as is the guard. A big step up pricewise is the Hammer but I don't think it's even available with a helical head and that ruled it out for me.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

Ditto on the Byrd head.

They're much quieter, and tearout is almost completely eliminated.

Don't be surprised if you find some broken cutters in the next month or so of usage- I think it's just the nature of the beast. I view it as a small price to pay for no tearout.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Did you have any trouble putting the Byrd head on it? I'm thinking of putting one on mine (I bought mine before the JJP-12H was available). I believe they slowed down the feed on the helical model. Do you find that the stock feed rate is OK?

Thanks for any insight.

No broken cutters yet. And none on my last jointer that had a shelix in it for a couple of years. Good to know though. Can't imagine going back to straight knives after using these.



Once I had at look at the old fence on the Grizzly, I pretty much stopped looking. It took up tons of space and you had to remove it to change operations. Last time I was in the showroom, the one with the new fence was not in so I haven't put my hands on it. The main drawbacks I remember from the Griz was that the change-over was clunkier and the machining and finish was rough like on their lower end machines. And I think I remember that the dust hood was plastic. I believe it comes with their spiral head and not a Byrd. Not sure what difference that makes but I doubt it's an improvement. The price is sure nice though. As for overall quality, I'm of the opinion that with machines in this price range, there is probably as much difference from one machine to the next as from one brand to the other, hence the lousy tables on mine. One upside of the ribbed tables is that I should be able to flatten them myself with a granite plate and sandpaper.



It was more work than a conventional jointer but not nearly as bad as a conventional planer would be. I think it only took a couple of hours. You need a gear puller and some creativity and patience to get the bearings off (and back on). They are tight! I was hesitant to re-use the bearings because it took so much force to get them off. But they were brand new and spun fine with no play so I put them back on and no problems yet after maybe 10 hours of use. On an older machine, I'd probably plan on new ones though.

No problems with feed rate although I haven't used the planer that much.

I was stupid to do it myself and not to get the HH model. The straight knife model was on sale and it I thought the 12" Byrd that Grizzly carried would fit it. Turns out I had to order from Byrd and it was way more than I thought. I think I saved a couple hundred bucks in exchange for a couple hours of work and probable voiding of the warrantee.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

My broken cutters were on a planer - probably too fast of feed rate & too deep of cut on some nasty knotty wood.



I don't know if it's still the case, but the cutting edges on the knock off heads were parallel to the cutterhead axis - just like a straight knife. The Byrd cutters are angled or twisted which creates a shearing cut.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Just wanted to update this. I hate it when people review tools when they are fresh and never come back to update after they have had more use.

I did flatten the tables by putting sandpaper on a 18" x 24" granite surface plate and working it with 2 people. I had to remove .006" - .010" in some spots!

The jointer works better now but as suspected, the tables do not stay co-planer. The whole thing is just too flimsy and stuff moves. That said, it stays close and is perfectly fine for everything I do except joining tops and backs. I get out the shooting board for those.

Overall, it feels like a good decision. Not being able to really dial it in is frustrating but, for my needs, I don't think it's worth 2 grand extra for a better machine.

_________________
http://www.chassonguitars.com

Thanks for the review!

I've been using a combination machine for several years (a Robland X31). The upside is that, in my old shop, I never would have had room (or $) for a stand-alone 12" jointer. Having had a 12" jointer, I never want to be without one again.

The biggest downside for me on the jointer/planer combo was the jointer fence. It had to be set up every time I wanted to change machines, which always took a couple minutes. And the fence was nowhere near as stable and sturdy as what you get on a standalone jointer. Usually, I just used a handplane for edge jointing because the combo jointer fence was too much of a hassle.

Now, with a bigger shop, I'm getting rid of the X31 and switching back to separate machines. I'm really looking forward to a solid jointer fence that I don't have to constantly adjust.

I went through many of the same questions during my research on exactly the same topic. I also decided that this was going to be my last purchase of milling equipment, so I wanted it to be something I will ride into the sunset.
I went with the Hammer 12" with Byrd helical and never looked back. Part of the Felder group, Austrian made. Out of the box dead on. .005 side to side accuracy in planer mode, Jointer tables dead nuts, done. So far superb customer support.
Yeah it was $4k+ with the mortiser attachment, but like I said, it's my last buy....
-C

_________________
Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

re: setup drifting

Mine does the same thing. As soon as I get around to it, I'm selling it and replacing it with a real jointer and planer. I think it's fine for furniture work, but falls flat on it's face for any sort of precision jointing. I'm so sick and tired of realigning it, going back a week later and finding that I can't accurately joint a guitar body.

That statement is confusing to me unless I am reading you right and you are implying that furniture work is less precise than instrument building. In which case you are misinformed.

BTW Rojek makes a nice machine for less than the Hammer. (not saying it is as nice as the Hammer just a nice machine at a lower price point.) They used to make jointers for Griggio. I have had a Felder combo planer/jointer 16" and now own a Rojek 12 jointer which I am happy with. I also have a Rojek mortiser which is a nice machine. They are worth checking out if one is looking for higher end machinery.
L.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Chas, the Hammer does look like a good machine and I've never heard a bad word about them. Did you retrofit the Byrd head on yours or could you get it from the factory? I looked all over their web site at the time and saw no option for a helical head. My memory is that the machine was close to 4K with straight knives. I thought I was going to be in for over 5K with a Byrd. Looking now, it's on sale for 3K with straight knives. That would be more tempting.

_________________
http://www.chassonguitars.com

If we just look at jointing for a second, it's pretty standard in the furniture world that if the joint closes with light clamping pressure it's good enough. I would never allow such a joint on one of my guitars. If it doesn't lay together perfectly with no clamping pressure at all, for me it's not good enough for guitar work. If it weren't the case, furniture would never get built. I doubt a machine shop could hold these kind of tight tolerances over the length of a dinning room table, for example. It's not happening on a jointer of any kind, I don't care who made it and who's running it, so just as a practical matter you have to relax your standards. In the opening post, Kent makes the statement that the machine is "close enough" for everything but plate jointing, so even luthiers relax their standards depending on the application. I must have a talent for offending people because I don't think the notion that instruments are generally built with a higher level of care and precision than, say, a coffee table is particularly controversial.

Thanks, Todd. Just to be clear, I don't mean imply that I'm some master craftsman. I relax standards when I'm building other things too. I'd never get anything done if I built everything to the same standard. I guess that means that I'm usually not doing my absolute best work if I'm to be honest with myself, and I'm OK with that.

Hey John,

Just wondering if the drift problem is specific to the luthiery application because I remember over at SMC you were mentioning that your Jet had zero problems with drifting. That is, are you still happy with it for furniture but just not luthiery?

FWIW, I have the newer Grizzly (the G0634xp) and so far, it's been pretty good. I personally think the machining is absolutely fantastic and I don't really know how it can get much better. The dust collection chutes ARE plastic which is annoying and they don't pick up 100% of the shavings. Also, Grizzly changed the head to be more Byrd-like now in that it's truly helical but they reduced the number of inserts to 32 which seems like a bit of an over-cost savings measure. It seems to be a little more prone to tearing out (compared to my old G0490x which has the spiral cutterhead) unless you slow the feed rate (something you can't control in planer mode).

That said, the thing does appear to stay dialed in...hopefully my experience over the next two years won't change.

Right out of the chute, the tables were warped. Jet was good and sent me a whole new machine. As I used the new one more and more, I started noticing a meandering alignment. For normal work it really is fine but I really notice it when I'm trying to get perfect joints on a carve top blank, for example. I used to joint everything by hand but I've come down with cubital tunnel problems and that motion really aggravates the condition. It's not a big deal on an acoustic top but it takes quite a bit of work to joint a 2" thick solid body blank. So now I'm noticing the small amount of drift back and forth. It's fine for everything except when it just has to be dead nuts perfect. There's only a couple of joints like that, but it bothers me that it won't do it.

I may simply suplament the Jet with a small, dedicated jointed just for edge jointing and call it a day.

Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense.

I had them install it as an option. I bought mine last year, when they had a "Free shipping" deal going. I seem to recall it was $3500, plus $800 for the Shelix ($1000 less $200 credit back on the Tersa stock Tersa head), plus another $800 for the mortiser attachment. At the time there was also a discount on options (mortiser, etc).
Point of entry is Dover Delaware, so your shipping cost will be based on that.

Call the rep and see what they've got going for deals.

-C

_________________
Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

Yeah, sure... about 12 or 15 years ago I had Steve Andersen in Seattle build me an archtop (an outstanding instrument BTW); I told myself (and my wife) that this is the last guitar I'll ever need. Well, guess what I've been shopping for over the last few months
Not my fault if I got hooked on playing Brazilian music...
pvg