Official Luthiers Forum!

I would think someone bestowed with the title Master Luthier is well versed in all aspect of stringed instrument repair and building. Not just the guitar. I tinker with many different stringed instruments including banjos to violins. But I would be well satisfied with the title Guitarmaker let alone Master of anything. ..Mike

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Another day, another dollar.

Bestowed by whom?

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Jim Hansen

I the US, many trade unions still do use the title system. If I'm hiring an electrician or plumber, I want a master. In my own organization (taekwondo) to become eligable for the title of master, you must be at least a 6th degree black belt (many years), rank test a given number of students each testing cycle (a lot), and undergo a years worth of specific training - including reading and writing assignments, and some other stuff to earn the rank of master instructor. Clearly there's nothing like that in this world, but maybe that wouldn't be a terrible idea? I dont know.

For me, a Master luthier is a luthier that reached a high level of craftsmanship, knowledge and experience. A luthier that can control, handle and play with all the parameters and aspects of building a guitar is a Master. By that I mean... because of his knowledge, experience and instinct, a Master can achieve the exact sound he's looking for, each time, and not (never) by hazard or chance.

Frienderich, Romanillos are Masters, and Somogyi, Beauregard, David Anthony Reed and De Jonge are.

My 2 cents.
Francis

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

For the most part, same as PHD. Piled Higher and Deeper.

So, if I had an extensive career on a fishing boat, y'all would not want to hear about that?

Mike

I`n my 30 + years working with wood for a living as a carpenter,I`ve only known 2 people who I would consider a master.The first I had the privilege of working with for over 10 years as a carpenter.If only I had paid attention?The second is a Luthier,David Collins,who is without a doubt a true master.I hope you don`t mind me tootin` your horn a little David.All I`m trying to say is a true master is someone beyond special at what he does and he knows who he is and so do others that know them and have witnessed their greatness.I`ve worked with countless people during the years as a professional carpenter and it`s rare to find people of this caliber.Only 2 in over thirty years!!!!So thanks David,for letting me come into your shop and enjoy your genius.And tell Hesh to get off his butt and do some work around there.
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

I think the system they have in Germany is actually agood one... as I understand it, a Master or Meister title has to be earned through experience and examination and although historically endiorsed by guilds, now in many areas can be endorsed by Profressional bodies/universities etc. It may be more relaxed now, but in the past you could only take on apprentices if you were a Master and the education was formal.

It is still in place today, but due to EU employment laws, you dont need to be a master to set up on your own and any more, but it is still a very strong indicator of a minimum standard of quality - as with all these things, the actual standrads obtained will vary, and there are probably plenty of excellent builders who did not go through this system. I do think though that a more formal approach for thsoe wishing to do this professionally would be beneficial to all... If you can find someone to take you on, it also means you might as get a small stippend during the apprentice years which is always helpful!

Of course this very formal standard title, should not be confused with the more ambiguous label assigned to those who have attained exceptional quality in their work over a long period which is something different entirely.

3,000 posts and you are a Master!

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

Ummm Beth,

Me don't know nuffin about Master loofiers, and even though the local lodge raised me up and we do use some of the same tools, me don't quite think its same thing.
Furthermore Beth, me really don't think you gonna find a "master" loofier on dis site as well umm they are all "Official" Loofiers, this being the "Official Loofiers Site" and all that.

Now who made them all "Official" is something me been trying to figure out since me gotts here.




blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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When I got my Festool Dust Extractor they put a sticker on the side with my name and title of Master Craftsman.

So there you go... the classic method... spend a good chunk of money, you get a title!

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

When I got my Festool Dust Extractor they put a sticker on the side with my name and title of Master Craftsman.

So there you go... the classic method... spend a good chunk of money, you get a title!

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

Duh, you already ARE commiserating with such folks.

Mike

Commiserating...umm das like crying in yer beer, right?


blessings

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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First: you have to understand that these sorts of ratings originated in the European guilds, and those were organizations in restraint of trade. Apprenticeships and ratings were, in part, a means of ensuring that there were not too many competitors in a given field in any one town (it was the country workers who eventually undermined the guilds). They also had the purpose of regulating skill levels (so they were a 'comsumer's' thing too): the exam system saw to it that anybody who called himself a 'master' was capable of doing work at a certain level. If you were new in town, and your fiddle folded up, you could be pretty sure that any master you sought out would know the correct way to repair it. Note 'the' correct way; there was only one... Those sorts of restrictions also played a part in the demise of the guilds.

A 'Master' was _not_ just 'anybody who could afford to run a shop': it actually went the other way: you could not, in many places, open a shop (in town) at all if you were not a rated master, no matter how much money you had. As I understand it, that's why we have C.F.Martin Inc. here. C.F.#1 had been rated as a 'Master' guitar maker in Vienna, but was not allowed to open a shop in his home town of Marnuekirchen because he had not passed the Masters exam there. They were violin makers in that town, and, as usual, looked down on mere guitars. Old C.F. gave up and left town for greener pastures.

Master's ratings had different requirements in different places and times, but the common elements were that you had to be in the trade for a while, you had to show a certain level of work (usually with some time element involved: design and build a guitar, a harp and a violin in a set time was one), the rating was bestowed by the other local masters, and you could be restricted in your rating to the work you showed. The guy who built all the stringed instruments could be a 'Master Luthier', while somebody who showed only guitars might be a 'Master Guitar Maker'.

In this time and place, it's an honorific/assumed title. ASIA was founded, in part, to set up a ratings system that would make it something more; a professional title that would be seen by customers as a qualty mark, as it was in the old days. The problem with any such system, especially here in the 'land of the free', is getting everybody to agree on what a 'master' should know/do. I'm not into electric guitars; although I can handle the wood work, and wire and shield one, I just don't do much of that stuff. Would an 'American Master Luthier' have to master solid body electrics, along with steel string and nylon string acoustics, plus violins, harps, and gosh knows what-all else? You can see why it never took off.

I wonder how much politics played role. If the few masters didn't like a guy's personality, would they be more likely to find some sort of "flaw" in their work, and therefore never make the grade of Master? Or what if some guy did exceptionally good work, far superior to the current crop of Masters? Might they be tempted to keep him shut out of the business, so none would have to compete with him?
I'm not convinced a guild system here in America would be worth much.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

As one of the people on this forum who attended Jose Romanillos's class in Siguenza, I want to share one of my favorite quotes attributed to Jose.

He would say, "every guitar I build I plan on it being a "masterpiece"...it isnt until I have strung it up and played it that I know how close I am..."