Official Luthiers Forum!

Its still used in many of the traditional crafts over here, as in master stone mason, master carpenter, master lock smith, master butcher and so on (I gooled; you can become a master in 72 trades or crafts in Norway). As has been mentioned, in the old days, in order to become a master, you usually had to make your 'masterpiece'. Today, you can become a master in these crafts after a certain amount of years as a journeyman, by documenting a high standard of quality in your work, and by additional courses in accounting, bookkeeping etc. It is common to do this before you start your own firm and hire employees and so on, and it might give you and edge over competitors that are not 'master firms', but it is not mandatory.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

It's only recently that I've begun to describe myself by that title, and I'm okay with that.

In part I'm okay with calling myself that because I like to think that most of my peers would agree, or at least have little objection. More importantly however, is that the reason I believe they would not object is because they understand the term not to hold any real sacred meaning in today's usage, and accept that it is what it is.

Just what exactly that is today, I don't know if I can authoritatively define. For myself I can only say this. I've studied, worked with, and learned from many others I would call "masters" of the trade. I've taught many students, and tutored several apprentices. I've done my best to study the history and science of what I am working with, as well as preservation ethics and practical needs and standards of performing musicians. I currently run the repair shop and oversee two other repairmen at a well established and respected shop. I could also say I've been called this by others before I would say it myself, but it's not hard to see the weakness of that argument - kind of like saying I'm a virtuoso because my daughter thinks I'm the best guitarist ever.

Do these criteria ultimately qualify me to call myself a "master luthier"? Well, yes, of course, because there is no governing body or formal guidelines to disqualify me from doing so, so it's really fair game for anyone who wants to use it. In all fairness I am certainly not a master of all aspects of this trade, and if you ask me in 30 years if use of the title was justified I may say it was pure arrogance and naivety.

Still, in relations to the repair and restoration services I focus on, I feel my use of this term is fair and appropriate. The only reasons to I can think of to speak or write this title at all though would be either ego, praise, or marketing. I at least like to think my use of this term applied to myself is driven more by the latter - you need something to say in press releases.

It's just a word, and there are many different ways in which it's use can be fair or appropriate. Always take with a grain of salt, and judge for yourself whether you think it justified. Opinions will vary.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

David Collins makes some excellent points in his post, and I hasten to add something I should have said in my previous post: I'm sure there are numerous luthiers and craftspeople of all trades who are certainly qualified to be called masters. When I previously commented that anyone with enough ego could call themselves a master, I was making a point about those who use the term ONLY for self promotion--and without the quality chops to back up their claim. I did not mean to infer that every "master" is guilty of this practice. I apologize to anyone and everyone worthy of the term whom I might have unintentionally offended. I have the highest regard for so many of you folks. I mean that sincerely.
Best regards to all.
Patrick

10,000 hours.
That's all it takes.

Well if that's all it takes to make it official, the I certainly have no problem.

Patrick, I don't think many would take any offense at your comments regarding ego. First off, it's true. Secondly, if anyone did take offense it probably just means they're uncomfortable admitting that they have an ego. We all do, and it's okay to some extent. Many of the most successful people in this trade have huge egos, and rather than trying to hide or deny it, they know how to use it.

Nothing wrong with that. Whether too full of themselves or not, those who say "I am the best", and can say it with such confidence and authority that most never think to doubt them, they are the ones who usually get the business that they're after. Of course you still need the skills to back those claims up if you want that image to last for long, as if you're a hack, word will get around no matter what you call yourself.

No sense lying to ourselves about it though- social mores and niceties of modesty don't always follow through as best practice in business. I am Sancho.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

If a person honestly describes themselves as a Master Luthier, they probably are one.

Some folks go on and on describing how great their guitars are, it is a different way of saying the same thing.

Marketing is a funny thing. While I often deride some other peoples marketing as "over the top" that marketing is often successful.

I don't think it is wrong to be outrageous, if the underlying product or skill measures up. Craftsman like ourselves are often too humble for our own good.

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came across this post by Cumpiano about "Master"


Cumpiano.

Hello,

I am from germany, I have the following "titels" (what a Bull puckie...):

- Gitarrenbauer (Gesellenbrief als Zupfinstrumentenmacher)
- Gitarrenbaumeister (Zupfinstrumentenmachermeister)
- Diplom Designer (FH) für Musikinstrumentenbau / Fachrichtung Zupfinstrumentenbau
- Ausbildereignung

I know how to build guitars, but i am too stupid to make my living with it.
For me the real masterpiece is when you are able to make your living with building guitars....

If you really want I can explain you the whole system, wich is a little bit complicated.....

Best regards, Alex

I wonder what a German Scrabble board looks like

normally 8 x 8 feet

We all know that there is no "master luthier" certification, in most of the world anyway.
So why doesn't the OLF step into the gap and provide one?

It could set up a peer review.

I suggest a sub forum where a wanna-be posts his "master work", nice big pictures, maybe a sound file, for all to examine, and do an anonymous poll. If you get so many "yes" votes, you get to pay a fee to support the site, and get a certificate.

Maybe only those attaining Master status could vote on candidates. At first, the OLF could appoint a group of known "really good luthiers" to vote on the wanna-be's.

There could be a "Master Repair Luthier" certificate also, and maybe some other certifications that are not coming to mind.

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So I suppose if the luthier in question is a woman then she is refereed to as Mistress Luthier?

Not that I expect to have the title, but "Master" should do for male or female...after all, the women of stage and screen refer to themselves as "Actor".

I don't think an online forum should do that sort of thing IMPO. Sounds like nothing more than a magnet for disappointment and narcissism. Not sure how much credibility one could get from a cert. from a website. ASIA or GAL should be the place to look for a service like that.

Gal has been "in business" for over 35 years, and they have never wanted to do it.
I don't know much about ASIA, but they haven't either.

No credibility, narcissism & disappointment? That is a heavy load you are piling on the idea of a peer review.

A peer review is not a "certificate from a website". It is a nod of approval, or disapproval, from knowledgeable craftsmen in the field, and a paper stating as much.
If a person can call themselves a "master luthier" without any sanction, why would a peer review be worse?

You can pay to go to a two week school, get help building a guitar, and get a "degree".

I get a critical review every time I ship a guitar, a review with a stiff financial penalty.
A master luthier certificate is only a marketing tool.

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I don't anticipate having it applied to me in the foreseeable future! I still make too many "oh no's". And then there's the cursing and swearing.

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Under Compensated Nut!

I don’t know if an OLF designation of “Master Luthier” is a good idea or not, but if this ends up happening, I’d like to see a “Luthier” designation too. I see this word brandished about all over the place, I’m not even sure what makes a luthier, other than I am not one. I consider myself a hobbyist, as my chops improve it might be nice to someday say luthier. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

That's how I feel about my own "work" Bryan....I love my hobby, but don't feel I could call myself a luthier!

If we apply the thinking of a timeline or yrs of experience required to be considered a " Master Luthier " based on " Other " Jobs that designate Apprentice , Journeyman , Master it would be no less than probably 20- 25 yrs experience ...... That having been said , it STILL doesnt mean that after all that time a person is any good at there craft !

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I would think someone bestowed with the title Master Luthier is well versed in all aspect of stringed instrument repair and building. Not just the guitar. I tinker with many different stringed instruments including banjos to violins. But I would be well satisfied with the title Guitarmaker let alone Master of anything. ..Mike

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Another day, another dollar.

Bestowed by whom?

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Jim Hansen

I the US, many trade unions still do use the title system. If I'm hiring an electrician or plumber, I want a master. In my own organization (taekwondo) to become eligable for the title of master, you must be at least a 6th degree black belt (many years), rank test a given number of students each testing cycle (a lot), and undergo a years worth of specific training - including reading and writing assignments, and some other stuff to earn the rank of master instructor. Clearly there's nothing like that in this world, but maybe that wouldn't be a terrible idea? I dont know.

For me, a Master luthier is a luthier that reached a high level of craftsmanship, knowledge and experience. A luthier that can control, handle and play with all the parameters and aspects of building a guitar is a Master. By that I mean... because of his knowledge, experience and instinct, a Master can achieve the exact sound he's looking for, each time, and not (never) by hazard or chance.

Frienderich, Romanillos are Masters, and Somogyi, Beauregard, David Anthony Reed and De Jonge are.

My 2 cents.
Francis

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

For the most part, same as PHD. Piled Higher and Deeper.

So, if I had an extensive career on a fishing boat, y'all would not want to hear about that?

Mike