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why am I still struggling to get a tight joint...I am using the shooting board as per Todd's tut! plane is a new stanley sweetheart #62 which is about 13.5 inches long sharpened the blade with duo sharp going to extra fine, the shavings are about .004 thick but I still cant get a tight joint.
How much pressure should I put on the plane???
Any setup tricks to the plane????
are the shaving too thick or too thin?????

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MK5acoustics.com

thanks, I will give it a shot!!

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MK5acoustics.com

I had the same problem. I got a 24in alum level put stick on sand paper on one side and sanded it and it worked great!

I would get really close with the plane, but I would follow it up with a few strokes on sandpaper stuck to a 3 foot x 4 inch tempered double plane of glass I found in a salvage store. Works every time for me.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

You have a good tool for the job.

-Check the sole for flatness; they're often concave in length on a new plane.
If the toe, mouth, and heel are coplanar you're fine- the whole sole need not be flat.

-If you're using the Duosharp's xf side for final honing there's a fair chance
your blade is not sharp enough.

Shooting board ,LN large shoulder plane,.oo1 shaving 8000 grit jap waterstone , green honing compound

First of all, breath and relax...

Ok feel better?



Where does the light shine through? The entry and exit is the hardest part to control. What works for me is to first hit the center of the boards then do one complete stroke start to finish. I usually end up taking more off the ends. I remember reading in David Russel Youngs book about the 'spring joint' which actually has a bit of light shining in the center tapering off to the ends. I go for dead flat but FWIW it may not be as critical as you thing.

Not even the finest plane, properly prepared and a good shooting board eliminate technique. You still need to mark the high or low spots and vary pressure applied to the plane to concentrate in the stubborn areas.

Hello, Todd is absolutely right!

I had the same problem on my first plate joining, and I realized it was a matter of plane set up. Nothing was straight and square in my plane.

When you see there is liiiiittle gaps that you are not experienced enough to remove with your plane, maybe you can use something like an easy joiner:
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com/product ... vid11.html
It saves some energy, and makes a perfect joint: on my 2nd instrument I couldn't find the joint when I wanted to drill the hole for the rosette routing device!

Bye,

Q.

What bothers me about the "Easy Joiner" video is;
the "Easy Joiner" is being used to compensate for (actually as a substitute for) poor technique with a plane, and then he uses tape to take the "flat" out of his device to compensate for his admittedly poor technique with the easy joiner (rocking motion he mentions)!!

C'mon folks, work on your skills! Learn how to evaluate, tune up, and use your tools.
And learn what "sharp" means for edge tools.
regards
pvg

Hopefully this isn't changing the subject too much for this discussion........but what plane is recommended for this operation? I'm reworking an old plane my wife's grandfather gave me before he passed away. I'm using 80g and still haven't got the sole completely flat (finally getting close). Once flat the other grits hopefully won't be as bad. If this plane doesn't work out, I'm curious what I should buy. What is the shortest length plane you would consider for this job?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

I ended up real close then ran it a few passes on my sanding jig , similar to easy jointed, came out perfect ! I still need to work on my planing skills..

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MK5acoustics.com

What does rock though after getting a good joint is using the tape method to join!! Beats the heck out of my clamping system!! I used Chris Paulick method of tape on both sides.

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MK5acoustics.com

A very good st edge e.g. starrett 18in is a helpful aid in your quest for the perfect edge. As to which plane , it./s a matter of taste & experience . On bogdanovich Classical gtr vid he uses a LN block plane to join just abt everything. I use a LN block to sq edges on a shooting board and use a large LN low angle shoulder plane to true long edges on stock up to 14in. Anything longer I use a homemade 18 in try plane made in 79 with a EIR sole and walnut body with a vy tight opening. It can take a .002 shaving and is used for jointing guitar tops and backs . For sides I use an ECE or primus 24 in wood jointer planes . Although I have a large choice of metal planes . I favor wood over metal, for it/s more sensitive feedback.

Can you get a plane to work that is 1/3 the length of the stock? If so, how much more difficult is it? I'm asking as I would prefer not to layout $300+ for an extra long plane if I don't need to.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

yes, that´s what you do with a shooting board...

sorry, lame joke but i could not resist. As usual, everything has already been said, but i would just like to add that i was in your position just a while ago (meaning i tuned and lapped my good old stanley no 5, sharpened the blade with no camber until 8000 naniwa superstone mirror shine, used guiding lines, a square, frantically aligned the plates) and nothing could help me. Once i ended up spending more than two hours on a top and still could not get it right (i ended up with no top). and then, after a couple of months trying, somehow it all just fell into place( ta da!), and i began achieving satisfactory results with minimum effort and just a couple of minutes work. now i use only the shooting board and my no 5, works every time. I´m still a bit surprised how it went so quick, but i reckon that every single mistake i made along the way wasn´t pointless: it allowed me to build some technique, some intuition and (above all) an ability to "read" the wood/plane relation and understand where/what i should correct for a particular result.
that was the oprah moment, short version follows: experience takes time. my advice: don´t let it bring you down. things will come with time.

cheers,
miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

A very good plane for shooting is also one of the best bargains around in Stanley/Bailey types--the "lowly" 5 1/4. Unless you have a seriously ramped shooting board, its #3 blade width can keep in constant contact with the workpiece, and it is just that little bit longer that it is perfect for shooting pieces usually associated with luthierie.

My first top and back set was done with Dad's type 17 (WW II era) after I tuned the plane.[It now sits on display- to memorialize it as the plane Dad taught me with and with his death, passing on to me. For work, I ordered an LN 5 1/4 with cocobolo.] I still grab the LN for smoothing, short free-jointing and as a "jack- of -all-trades" -it is a shop workhorse.

I say "lowly," because the plane is often knocked as a reform-school tool of lesser value than others. So, even on the auction site you can get a very nice vintage 5 1/4 for below #5 price for the same type/era that strikes your fancy.

I also have two LN # 9's-one a bronze of the first 40 or so Tom L-N made and one a present design with a drill/tap of right or left side handle mount and coco. Actually the #9 and the 5 1/4 share some characteristics desirable for guitar work.

Also, with the Stanley/Bailey/Bedrock planes, getting confident in use of the lateral adjustment lever plays a part in consistent shooting, especially if your plane is not quite square on the cheek-sole relationship.

Use a router with a flush cutting bit. All you need is a straight edge for the follower and the jointing can be done in no time at all. I made up a jig with a long caul to clamp the top/back plates and an inset on one edge that i just bolt my meter rule onto. Run the router along on each plate and you're away! Obviously its pretty essential that you make sure your straight edge is perfectly straight!

One thing I found was immensely helpful through the learing process was jointing on cheap wood... I actually re-sawed a 2x4 into many slices - and then jointed these all up into a 22 and an 18 piece top..... The advantage is that you can practice making a zillion glue joints at a total cost of $3.00 or less (I pulled my practice 2x4 out of a scrap dumpster...)

Don't feel bad about the time it took you or your final solution.... There is an immense amount of technique involved... You gotta get a feel for exactly where to apply pressure and how much pressure as you shoot the joint.... "Hollow" spots are where you are pushing a bit too hard... "Proud" spots are where you are pushing a bit too light.....

You will also find that your clamping technique on the shooting board has an effect as well... Clamp the ends and you will find the ends are loose... Clamp the center and you will find the center is loose.... When you are talking about 0.001" gaps - even a 9" wide board clamped to a table flexes a bit under hand pressure....

In the end - there is no shame in sanding the joint so it candles properly... Builders use all sorts of techniques - routers, jointers, sandpaper, planes, you name it..... Though you wouldn't believe it from the internet lore - all have the capability to produce strong glue joints if they take proper care to ensure a tight, stress free joint.... and all have the capability to produce glue joints that split back open if the joint is poorly made...

Thanks