Official Luthiers Forum!

Howdy!

Anyone ever use 'em? They look sweet and I have a set on the way. Just wondering if there are any tips on installing them. Is it as simple as it seems? Thanks in advance for the help!

Tony

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I've used quite a few, as have others here. They seem to be quite popular. Not as good as Waverlys, but a good value IMO. When installing, I step drill the headstock so the tuner shaft is supported well by both the wood of the headstock and the bushing. Stewmac's reamers make it easy.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Yep. Standard equipment for mine.

Probably not as good as Waverlys, but I think they are a dang fine tuner. Dan Roberts (formerly of Santa Cruz Guitar Company) told me this is the tuner they used there.

Are Waverlys worth the extra money? Probably, but I think the Sta-Tites work great. If a client wants Waverlys, I'll happily upcharge and put them on.

-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
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Every guitar I've ever seen with Waverly tuners has had the worm gear bushing come loose all the time and need constant tightening. I've never been compelled to use them. Those Sta-Tites will work just fine, especially if you heed the advice about stepping the capstan hole in the headstock.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I have used and liked them. but the last few sets have had at least 1 tuner with so much slop in the gears they are unusable. I think they are still a great deal even if you have to buy an extra set once in a while to replace the loose ones. It seems that the ones that are good at the start will last for a long time.

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Tony, I have used them on two guitars. I like the look a lot, but with the last set I found fine tuning to a lower pitch required loosening the string a touch then tightening back up to pitch.

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

I have used them. Love them, just like all Grovers.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Ken, thanks you. However, I was taught to tune the way you are describing, unless I am missing something. I was told to always tune UP to pitch, never down to pitch since the string can bind in the nut ever so slightly and when you least expect it, it will pop out of tune and go flat. If you tune up to pitch, there is much, much less chance that the string will pop up and go sharp. Know what I mean?
Thanks for the info everyone. I was having second thoughts about them. I believe they are going to work just fine.
Now if theguitarwhisperer would only explain what he is talking about with the capstan and stepping and my headstock. Well GW? What of it? OR will it be very clear when they arrive and I read the instructions?

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Watch the attitude Tony, you're already on thin enough ice with me as it is. (As if that's important, hah!). Here is a picture of a neck I made for these guys, their headstock shape and logo, their aged finish job. What you should notice is that the holes are two sizes, 1/4 inch for the capstan (that's the part that sticks through the hole that you wind he string around) on the back of the headstock, and 11/32 inches for the press fit bushing on the top of the headstock. This gives support for the bass of the capstan, preventing it from wobbling, relieving some sideways pressure, ensuring that the star gear is firmly engaged with the worm gear, since that little bit of play that is normally present (called "Lash") is minimized. The tuner wears longer and functions better, IMO.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

BTW Tony, I believe you are correct on your tuning method assessment, although for different reasons. The string shouldn't ping at all in the nut, that means that there is too much friction. Even tuning correctly, (start flat, tune up to pitch) if there is friction in the nut, then when you tune the string, the tension is unbalanced with higher tension on the tuner side of the nut. As the string vibrates, the tensions equalize and the string pulls through, causing the note to go sharp. A correctly shaped nut, properly libricated, should minimize this. The strings must be fully stretched (but not over-stretched), start flat and tune up to the note, and let go of the tuner to read the final note, pluck the note to keep it fresh and watch the tuner for a second or two after you let go of the tuner.

As to the reason for starting flat as relates to the tuner, The tuning gear mechanism has 3 main parts. The capstan (also called the shaft), the start gear which is screwed to the shaft (although some tuning keys such as Sperzel machine the shaft and star gear out of one piece of stainless steel), and the worm gear. The problem is with the play in the gears, called "Lash", that is present in all gears to some degree, some more than others. If you start below pitch and tune up, the lash is taken up and the gears are engaged. Friction then holds the gears in place, and the constant tension of the string maintains this. If you then tune down , even a little, the friction is released, and the gear will move slightly until the gear engages the opposite direction, and sometimes keep moving slowly, causing tuning problems. String tension makes it feel smooth as you tune down, but play is being introduced into the gears.


So, if the nut is shaped correctly, the strings are stretched, and you tune properly as described, you should have a guitar that stays in tune very nicely, depending on the strings you use, and how you attack them.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

The issue lately is when the strings are up to pitch on the bad tuners the buttons can be rotated 1/8th of a turn between tight in each direction. On one of my guitars the low E string tuner actually rattled when the string is tuned to C which I often do. A new set of tuners should not have any slop when the string is up to pitch, that said they are a good tuner at a reasonable price even if it takes 4 sets to do 3 guitars after replacing the loose ones.

I did a guitar with Gotoh delta 21:1 and what a difference in quality and feel so will be trying the Gotoh open backs on my next build that gets open back tuners.

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

GW,

Thanks for the two well written explanations. I do not have any issues with my pinching in my nuts. I make sure my nuts are nicely polished and that the strings fit well in their slots and do not bind. I was not aware that it was lash that we were taking up and not shoddy nut slots, when we tune up to pitch.
I guess the more lash, the poorer quality of the gear mesh.
As for that thin ice comment....well... Bring it!!

Tony

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

And now, time for another episode of "As the Luthiersforum Turns"!

I'm just playin' witcha Tony

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I know that GW! But if we can't have a little fun, what is the point?
I need to go get an 11/32 drill bit now. I wonder if anyone will carry it.
Can I use a reamer to get a similar result if I start with a 1/4 inch hole for the shaft if I am unable to find an 11/32 inch bit? I get the feeling Home Depot does not stock that size!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Well I bought the last 11/32" bit home depot had and a 1/4 inch brad point bit. Thanks for the tip GW. Let's see if I can drill the holes properly!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Just make sure 11/32 fits that particular press fit bushing, as they vary.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

This is very important; some of their production runs seem to leave the plating thicker or something. At any rate, the difference can be enough to crack the finish around the tuner hole, DAMHIK. Make sure you measure and test, and make the necessary adjustments. This is the only real complaint I now have about these tuners, and I've used probably 25 sets.

About 6 or 7 years ago they sent out a few batches with slipping gears, that was NOT fun. I got replacement sets from Stewmac no problem (I even think it says 'Lifetime Guarantee' on the pack), but its no fun to deliver guitars with defective gears in the first place, as you know they will come back. Even if Grover made them, YOU delivered it, and that is your responsibility.




Like I said above, you shouldn't have any problems getting replacements.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Thanks for the info everyone. They went on last night without a hitch. The bushings were a perfect fit for 5 of the 6 11/32nds holes. One was tight. A little sand paper and all was well. Tonight I should get strings on and see if they work as advertised!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I just got my StaTites today, at first look they seem a little...wimpy.

I'm going to try to give them the "Chris Paulick" treatment with some new shop made beans.